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    I think we can read that as: "In your case you...

    I think we can read that as: "In your case you might be right". :ahem:
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    Nope! In a logical argument the...

    Nope! In a logical argument the premise/awareness comes first followed by the reasoning.
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    The point throughout has been that creatures...

    The point throughout has been that creatures cannot react or reason about anything unless they are aware it exists. Awareness comes first, you have not demonstrated otherwise.
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    Whether it is a wolf baying at the moon or baying...

    Whether it is a wolf baying at the moon or baying for a mate, it is instinctive, not 'reasoned' behaviour
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    A wold baying to get a mate is instinctive, not...

    A wold baying to get a mate is instinctive, not 'reasoned' behaviour
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    Yes, it seems that this is correct. ...

    Yes, it seems that this is correct.



    Presumably this is instinctive behaviour, not 'reasoned' behaviour as such.
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    So what are wolves reasoning about when they howl...

    So what are wolves reasoning about when they howl at the moon?
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    You are projecting. A wolf is aware of the moon...

    You are projecting. A wolf is aware of the moon and howls at it instinctively. It not reasoning about it being "a far away object that is not part of itself", etc. etc.etc.
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    Are you arguing that the wolf is reasoning "that...

    Are you arguing that the wolf is reasoning "that the moon is a far away object that is not part of itself, that it isn't food or something it can eat, that it gives off light". I don't think so. ...
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    An intelligent, reasoning entity will understand...

    An intelligent, reasoning entity will understand these things. This is not to say that creatures of limited intelligence will not be aware of them to some extent. It's not an 'all or nothing'...
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    No, it is ‘awareness’ at its simplest level. As...

    No, it is ‘awareness’ at its simplest level. As opposed to a programmed robot, the jellyfish is programmed by evolution. In both cases there are aware to the extent that their survival is enhanced...
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    Not in the case of organisms such as jellyfish,...

    Not in the case of organisms such as jellyfish, which survive according to how they respond to aversive or positive stimuli in their surroundings. If they were not aware of their surroundings they...
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    It's the "more broadly" bit where you go wrong. ...

    It's the "more broadly" bit where you go wrong. You've extended the definition to fit into your own argument re the importance of reasoning. "Awareness", in its simplest form, is the ability to...
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    Yes. In the example of the jellyfish it is aware...

    Yes. In the example of the jellyfish it is aware of its surroundings.



    I’m not talking about “knowledge” or “reasoning” merely making the point, which you keep erroneously disputing, that...
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    ‘Awareness’ is defined by the Oxford Dictionary...

    ‘Awareness’ is defined by the Oxford Dictionary as: “knowledge or perception of a situation or fact”. On the basis of this “perception” a jellyfish responds to its surroundings without the need to...
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    Jellyfish have reflexes and can detect simple...

    Jellyfish have reflexes and can detect simple sensory data, so to this extent they are ‘aware’ of their surroundings. But they cannot ‘reason’, which puts the lie to your argument.
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    ...and on and on it goes. :sigh: Awareness...

    ...and on and on it goes. :sigh:

    Awareness must come first. Unless one is aware of something then one cannot reason about it. Even jellyfish, although without a brain, have simple sensory...
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    So can I. Again: "Reasoning" is the active...

    So can I. Again: "Reasoning" is the active component of passive awareness. The awareness must come first". Note shunya's example of the jelly fish above. It can be aware of light but it is...
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    No, "reasoning" is the active component of...

    No, "reasoning" is the active component of passive awareness. The awareness must come first.



    Repeating your mantra ad nauseam does not make it so.
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    Observation and awareness are the prerequisite to...

    Observation and awareness are the prerequisite to reasoning about things.
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    My "wise friend, JimL is correct: "Reason and...

    My "wise friend, JimL is correct: "Reason and logic are self evidential valid methods of finding truth", but before reason and logic can be employed one must be aware of something about which to...
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    “Facts about the world” are based upon initial...

    “Facts about the world” are based upon initial observation and awareness of the world around us. Reasoning follows on from that. What point are you trying to make with your insistence that...
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    Well yes, all sentient creatures can reason to a...

    Well yes, all sentient creatures can reason to a greater or lessor degree, but I suggest that in the case of wolves howling at the moon they are doing so from mere instinct, not as a reasoned...
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    A functioning brain is the minimum requirement...

    A functioning brain is the minimum requirement for awareness of one’s surroundings. A wolf howls at the moon, it is certainly “aware” of it but is it “reasoning” about it? Answer: of course not. ...
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    Awareness merely requires the existence of a...

    Awareness merely requires the existence of a functioning brain, whereas “reason” is the power of the brain to think, understand, and form judgments. A baby can be ‘aware’ of a noisy baby rattle...
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