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Type: Posts; User: Doug Shaver

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  1. Is there any nation in existence at the time...

    Is there any nation in existence at the time about which the statement would not have been true?
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    OK, interesting. Can you give us any reason to...

    OK, interesting. Can you give us any reason to consider it believable?
  3. The homeland of the aboriginal Americans, the...

    The homeland of the aboriginal Americans, the people called "Indians" by their conquerors.


    There were many Indian nations. Who says none of them survived?
  4. Oh, but they were. The people of many nations...

    Oh, but they were. The people of many nations conquered their homeland, and they are now scattered among the people of those conquering nations.
  5. Not necessarily. I said I could say it, not that...

    Not necessarily. I said I could say it, not that I do say it. I have a reason for not saying it. You do say it, and I assume you have a reason for saying it. The difference between those reasons...
  6. I could say the same about my experience with...

    I could say the same about my experience with former atheists who become Christians.
  7. So, reason and logic led you to believe. Many...

    So, reason and logic led you to believe. Many atheists are former believers who were led away from their belief by reason and logic. What should that tell us about whether God values reason and logic?
  8. If I were arguing "Most people believe X,...

    If I were arguing "Most people believe X, therefore X is true," that would be fallacious. But that is not my argument.
  9. I wasn't talking about logical consistency. I was...

    I wasn't talking about logical consistency. I was talking about what someone would reasonably expect to be the case if they weren't antecedently committed to a religious dogma that required both...
  10. I use the same reason and logic that Christians...

    I use the same reason and logic that Christians use to conclude that God cares about reason and logic.
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    Not in my godless world. I don't accept the...

    Not in my godless world. I don't accept the possibility of a conflict between the smart thing to do and the right thing to do.
  12. My reason and logic tell me that that statement...

    My reason and logic tell me that that statement is not consistent with "God doesn't really care how you come to believe in him."
  13. You said, "God doesn't really care how you come...

    You said, "God doesn't really care how you come to believe in him, only that you do." How did I twist that?
  14. Maybe. Or maybe it just can't be done. We can let...

    Maybe. Or maybe it just can't be done. We can let the lurkers decide.
  15. Show me the contradiction between what you said...

    Show me the contradiction between what you said and my paraphrase of what you said.
  16. Logic alone will not tell us whether the...

    Logic alone will not tell us whether the conclusion of an argument is true. It can tell us whether the argument's premises actually provide a good reason to believe the conclusion, but it cannot...
  17. If the God you believe in does not care whether...

    If the God you believe in does not care whether his followers exercise their reason properly but only that they come to certain conclusions, then I have to hope he is not real.
  18. Not in the immediate situation. But if they are...

    Not in the immediate situation. But if they are routinely so oblivious to simple logic, the long-term consequences are unlikely to be what they will like.

    Whether they should or should not trust...
  19. Only if rationality is nothing more than a matter...

    Only if rationality is nothing more than a matter of personal judgment. I don't think it is. What else it could be, though, is something philosophers have been arguing about for as long as there have...
  20. Thank you for your candor. I rarely encounter...

    Thank you for your candor. I rarely encounter apologists who will admit that.
  21. Of course. But neither is it rational just...

    Of course. But neither is it rational just because someone else says it is.
  22. Sure, because heaven couldn't care less about why...

    Sure, because heaven couldn't care less about why people believe. Any reason is a good reason, no matter how irrational.
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    I don't have God's say-so for anything. I have...

    I don't have God's say-so for anything. I have some books that some men tell me contain God's say-so, and those men have a history of killing each other to settle their disputes over how those books...
  24. One old atheist becomes a Christian, and that's...

    One old atheist becomes a Christian, and that's supposed to convince other atheists that God is good?
  25. Oh, OK. My mistake. Since this is an apologetics...

    Oh, OK. My mistake. Since this is an apologetics forum, I thought maybe it was supposed to prove something to people who didn't already believe. But, it's just you believers congratulating...
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