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    Well, if "creation" generally means "cause to...

    Well, if "creation" generally means "cause to exist," then yes, as best I can tell a non-rational process resulted in rational beings who can in turn create objects that operate rationally or objects...
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    I admit I leaped to the assumption that you are...

    I admit I leaped to the assumption that you are also human. If that was presumptuous, then I apologize. :wink:



    Hence the term "analogous." I didn't say the brain was a muscle. It is more like...
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    As best I can tell, my ability to reason is...

    As best I can tell, my ability to reason is something gained over eons of evolution. Presumably, the ability to reason provides a survival advantage for a species- at least in the short term. The...
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    I guess we part at "pure reason." We are human,...

    I guess we part at "pure reason." We are human, which includes limited and imperfect. We aren't capable of "pure" anything - and "pure reason" is simply (to me) a theoretical construct with no...
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    And yet the code involves two possible outcomes,...

    And yet the code involves two possible outcomes, the choice between which will be driven by the specific inputs. All you are saying is that the choice of the computer is determined - rather than...
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    How does that make it any less rational? :huh: ...

    How does that make it any less rational? :huh:

    (or I could ask this the way you seem to like to: SO you admit that the computer is rational then?) :wink:



    We aren't, AFAIK. Being "subject...
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    Darf - your post here is well structured, but...

    Darf - your post here is well structured, but doesn't make your case. The point was not that a human person is NOT rational (and your argument clearly shows - by definition of terms that a human...
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    Well - we designed them according to the laws of...

    Well - we designed them according to the laws of reason as we understand them - so we are the ones who determine if their reasoning is "valid" or not. If they follow the laws as we understand them,...
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    Yes, it is. And created to operate according to...

    Yes, it is. And created to operate according to specified rules of logic, making it "rational," according to the definition of the term. Completely determined (for the most part) - and rational.

    ...
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    Rational: based on or in accordance with reason...

    Rational: based on or in accordance with reason or logic.
    Rationality: the quality of being based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

    Where, exactly, do you see "free will" or "determinism"...
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    Yeah...I wondered if anyone would point that out....

    Yeah...I wondered if anyone would point that out. Leave it to you to be the one. You've always impressed me as a pretty sharp cookie, as my father used to say.
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    So, first, thanks for a very civil post! For my...

    So, first, thanks for a very civil post! For my response, however, I can only point you back to my posts to Seer. There is nothing about the definition of "rational" that involves determinism or free...
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    Seer - you are trying to make a comparison based...

    Seer - you are trying to make a comparison based on an attribute that is not part of the term. I did not say equal - or unequal - or better - or worse. I said I find nothing in the definition of...
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    Determinism and Free Will have nothing to do with...

    Determinism and Free Will have nothing to do with the term "rationality" as far as I know, so there is no "equal" or comparison to be made. Perhaps you are using a different dictionary?



    I am...
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    I have no idea what this sentence means...

    I have no idea what this sentence means...
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    Again - if that is the reality... then that is...

    Again - if that is the reality... then that is the reality :shrug:



    So this has been discussed many times. We have found many aspects of the quantum world that throw big monkey wrenches into...
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    Umm...we have different definitions of "new."...

    Umm...we have different definitions of "new." Something in the last 40 years or so is still comparatively new. And how much ongoing work is being done in this field? These articles have been linked...
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    From the abstract (emphasis mine)... Here, we...

    From the abstract (emphasis mine)...

    Here, we explore the possibility that choices can seem to occur before they are actually made.

    You are imparting a great deal of certainty on an initial...
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    Was.... As with Frederick Douglass - he is no...

    Was....

    As with Frederick Douglass - he is no longer with us. :wink:
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    Yes - they have done tests and provided evidence...

    Yes - they have done tests and provided evidence - and provided one interpretation of that evidence. All of this is in its earliest days. You seem to be investing this article and study with an...
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    Again - brain is the hardware. Mind is more akin...

    Again - brain is the hardware. Mind is more akin to software. And a very sophisticated software that can essentially write itself AND create changes in the hardware. The relationship between the two...
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    It doesn't help that my "Kant brain cells" are...

    It doesn't help that my "Kant brain cells" are ancient and dusty. I remember not being particularly fond of his philosophy, but I am not sure I could articulate why 30+ years later. The description...
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    Nice chatting with you... :smile:

    Nice chatting with you... :smile:
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    Again - I don't see how you can show this to be...

    Again - I don't see how you can show this to be true.



    As with most people (I hope), I take the evidence to wherever it goes. When I hit an impasse, I say, "I don't know" for anything beyond...
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    I guess I'm still struggling with "logic is a...

    I guess I'm still struggling with "logic is a human construct." The implication of accepting that statement at face value seems to be that we can simply decide, at some point, that the Law of...
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