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    For the life of me Carp, I can not see the...

    For the life of me Carp, I can not see the distinction. The non-rational forces nature determine the flower to bloom, and cause you to spit out the words "I'm rational." You see one as non-rational...
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    Yes, my church is in an old farming community,...

    Yes, my church is in an old farming community, and a couple of the old farmers come because they always did - but they certainly are not believers.
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    Carp, you keep pointing to computers which are...

    Carp, you keep pointing to computers which are created by rational minds. But you believe that the non-rational created us. I think I'll slip God in here...





    But you are no less determined...
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    Were you designed to operate according to the...

    Were you designed to operate according to the laws of reason and logic? Aren't both you and the tree created by the same non-rational forces of nature? The tree buds, you spit out words - why are you...
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    Again it is only rational because it was created...

    Again it is only rational because it was created by a rational mind. It is merely an extension of our rationality.





    If we are determined how are we any less subjected to the laws of...
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    OK so how is rationality valid if determined by...

    OK so how is rationality valid if determined by the non-rational forces of nature which do not know or consider the laws of logic or reason?




    Do you think I'm lying?
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    Again Carp, a device created by a rational mind....

    Again Carp, a device created by a rational mind. Is a snow storm rational? A flood? A tree falling in the forest?
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    Carp, I believe rationality means thinking,...

    Carp, I believe rationality means thinking, weighing different evidence and ideas, using logic and freely coming to a conclusion. Not that your rational beliefs and choices are dictated by the...
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    Really? So free thought where you get to weigh...

    Really? So free thought where you get to weigh propositions, ideas and evidence and come to your own conclusion is just as rational as non-rational forces dictating your beliefs and conclusions...
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    So slavery to antecedent conditions and biology...

    So slavery to antecedent conditions and biology is somehow equal to free thought and reason when it come to rationality in your mind?





    I don't see how QM could make any difference.
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    Whether rational or not, with no way of deciding...

    Whether rational or not, with no way of deciding what is rational or not.
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    Of course freedom is relevant, a deterministic...

    Of course freedom is relevant, a deterministic system has no possibility of self-correction, it would be a complete slave to antecedent conditions beyond its control. There is no possibility of...
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    No Carp, it is not new. The Libet experiments go...

    No Carp, it is not new. The Libet experiments go back to 1983: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will

    Others are 20 years old:...
  14. Thread: Reparations

    by seer
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    I want my reparations! ...

    I want my reparations!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NeS4ueaU6w
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    No Shuny there are studies showing the we make...

    No Shuny there are studies showing the we make decisions before we are ever aware of them. NO conscious choice.

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797616641943
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    So is Euclid, so what? I mean you take Moses as a...

    So is Euclid, so what? I mean you take Moses as a prophet of God...
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    Where did I ever deny evolution Shuny? And as far...

    Where did I ever deny evolution Shuny? And as far as I know there are no studies showing the possibility of free will.
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    If I remember correctly, didn't he make a moral...

    If I remember correctly, didn't he make a moral argument for the existence of God and that if God did not exist, morality (our morality), would be irrational?
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    It is more than speculative if you follow up on...

    It is more than speculative if you follow up on the studies. They have actual evidence.
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    If materialism is true the "mind" is just the...

    If materialism is true the "mind" is just the brain. If there is a mind our thoughts are merely epiphenomenonal with no causal effect on the process. And all that is just as determined as any...
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    I have been arguing against determinism right...

    I have been arguing against determinism right along, that it is not compatible with rationality.




    So you don't believe that the ability to choose otherwise is viable or possible?
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    But I believe in free will. As we...

    But I believe in free will.




    As we discussed in the past the free will of compatibilism is not free will in the libertarian sense (ability to choose otherwise).
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    Why do you think he ran from Potiphar's wife?

    Why do you think he ran from Potiphar's wife?
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