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    Here:

    Here:
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    Not all ID people acknowledge it - many focus on...

    Not all ID people acknowledge it - many focus on what they claim is the complete improbability of the original formation of enzymes and the like.

    In any case, in answer to your question:
    What's...
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    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13982 ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13982

    There it is again. Just worked for me a second time.
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    No, that's not right either. The abstract was...

    No, that's not right either. The abstract was linked here; why does nobody seem to want to read it.
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    So why did you keep arguing it, even after a...

    So why did you keep arguing it, even after a direct quote was shown to you? And change your justification while doing so? If you'd just acknowledge that you were wrong, the entire conversation could...
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    Hi, biologist here to tell you you have no idea...

    Hi, biologist here to tell you you have no idea of what you're talking about, and should probably learn some biology before claiming to be able to say anything about evolution.

    DNA and RNA are a...
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    Your entire post is the same old confused...

    Your entire post is the same old confused garbage, so i'm going to help you and my own sanity by focusing on one thing at a time.

    No, we are not "both right", because you explicitly stated the...
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    Please explain why you've used different...

    Please explain why you've used different justifications on consecutive pages.

    As for your question, this may shock you given your lack of experience with science, but papers can contain more than...
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    In my experience, people who use those phrases...

    In my experience, people who use those phrases are often unaware of existing data that contradict everything they're claiming.
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    I apparently left it too late to edit, so some...

    I apparently left it too late to edit, so some errata for my extended ramble:

    "While that's far from the only thing that enzymes do, and thus this is a painfully incomplete view of what evolution...
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    I just find that there's no predicting what may...

    I just find that there's no predicting what may interest other people, or which explanations might click for some people, even if they're on a topic that has been discussed extensively before. So, i...
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    There's a quote from the paper, pasted in here...

    There's a quote from the paper, pasted in here for you, that clearly said the source was random. (Looking at the paper, in at least one case, they literally started with a string of 40 random bases)....
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    This. This encapsulates your problems with...

    This. This encapsulates your problems with everything in these discussions: you value your personal intuitions more highly than you value facts. The authors say they discovered activities in a pool...
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    Once again, i can only recommend that you take...

    Once again, i can only recommend that you take the time to learn some biology before trying to comment on it. Here's the paper that that's based on:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13982
    ...
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    Based on what? Based on what? He wasn't...

    Based on what?


    Based on what? He wasn't saying anything about the source of enzymes, he didn't explain whether his statement had any limits to its applicability, etc. And yet you're applying it...
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    Because you're you, i'm not sure you can fully...

    Because you're you, i'm not sure you can fully appreciate just how ludicrous the "logic" there comes across to everyone else.

    It fails on many, many levels. For one, it arbitrarily rejects the...
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    Well, let's reason this out. Here are your...

    Well, let's reason this out. Here are your prepositions:

    A = successful design supports ID by analogy.
    B = failure to exceed nature implies design was needed.

    Possible scenarios:

    Design...
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    So, you admit you're not making a scientific...

    So, you admit you're not making a scientific argument. Maybe this thread was misplaced in Nat Sci then.

    And, if the argument is just some creationist's gloss on an opinion from one scientist, what...
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    As i recall, there was an entire table listing...

    As i recall, there was an entire table listing all the coding region changes altered in polar bears vs. their closest living relatives. Maybe Behe didn't devote much space to this, or maybe it was...
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    "One guy causally mentioned an opinion" is not a...

    "One guy causally mentioned an opinion" is not a scientific argument.


    I don't know about you, but i'd take a process that has billions of years and solves multiple problems at once over human...
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    Why? What compels us to consider that? Why can't...

    Why? What compels us to consider that? Why can't evolution produce near optimal results?

    And loose the "bumbling" please. It adds nothing to the discussion.
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    The more i think about this, the more i'm stunned...

    The more i think about this, the more i'm stunned by the lack of logic in this argument. There's two ways to highlight this:

    We have no evidence of design, and plenty of evidence for evolution. In...
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    Sorry, let me clarify. Yes, the polar bear may be...

    Sorry, let me clarify. Yes, the polar bear may be an example of a situation where evolution has broken or deleted a bunch of genes (though Behe, as discussed extensively above, didn't actually show...
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    Maybe you've got reason to believe that, but...

    Maybe you've got reason to believe that, but scientists don't. Given that we have multiple examples of nature creating, repurposing, and optimizing enzymes through evolution.

    I also find it highly...
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    It would also be an example of Behe cherry...

    It would also be an example of Behe cherry picking his example to make his case look good.
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