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In relation to Adam and Eve where you said they had no choice because God wanted them to sin and create the need for Jesus...why could it not have been that they had a choice, and that God took...

What is your opinion on the fate of Lazarus after he died and was resurrected?

Yes it is God's Wisdom, but what I'm asking is how you apply it to explaining elements of these prophecies? What do the wings mean and teeth and nails and heads mean in the 4 Beasts? What are the 10...

Again, I haven't seen your detailed interpretation of what all elements of these prophecies mean, so that you can show me how your wisdom is superior. You have claimed I'm off track throughout this...

What I mean is more like the dictionary definitions, adressing your comment: "I disagree, Adam and Eve had no choice in the garden of Eden; everything that happen in that garden was preordained."

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To recap and clarify:

The 4th Beast is 7 Heads of Greece/Rome Kingdoms, signified by Brass Nails and Iron Teeth.

The 8th Head is revived from the 5th Head of Roman/Herodian cooperation to kill...

If we have no Free Will and God dictates and controls everything we do, then if someone came up to you on the street and punched you in the nose, you couldn't blame him since he's not the one who...

That doesn't really matter, Pharisee Judaism then and now believes in a physical resurrection.



Of course there is an entirely spiritual body when we die, before we are resurrected. It's the...

This relates to my question in the other thread so I'll wait on your answer over there...

Is it your position that they had no Free Will, or that nobody has Free Will, that God has programmed us like robots to do what we do? I don't mean that facetiously, but I'm wondering how you handle...

I just see it as, God doesn't want anyone to do evil, but as long as they do, He uses them to make lemonade of lemons.

Where the perceived wrong represents God allowing us to exist knowing we would suffer, is it wrong for parents allowing children to exist knowing they will suffer?

If non-existence is preferable...

If you trust a person not to flake and leave you stuck with the debt as the co-signer, and he does, it's vicarious punishment if you aren't happy about it, you are getting punished for a debt that's...

Quite the opposite, it is actually not paying close attention that results in traditional assumptions about what the text is really saying.

Daniel 2 culminates in the end of all non-Davidic...

Traditional views don't actually line up, and there are scriptural explanations for all here every step of the way, but I'll run through it again:

One key to interpreting the Beasts and Heads lies...

From a non-religious view for a moment, voluntary VP happens all the time when co-signers have to pay off a debt. Would you agree that as long as it's voluntary, it's ethical?

The spirit does leave the body, then is resurrected in the same flesh that is made incorruptible, so it is like changing clothes. This doesn't imply being without flesh however, for example:

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I'm coming from the position that God's omniscience would know exactly what we experience every second, our joys, dreams, heartaches, failures, before they actually happened. Kind of like in It's A...

To briefly summarize again, I'd see 3 Heads of Brass as Macedonian, Ptolemaic, Seleucid, then 4 Heads of Iron as Roman/Hasmonean, Roman/Herodian, then Rome extending into Byzantine as 6th, then...

I see the Iron as Rome extending and transforming into the end. Napoleon and Nazi Germany were powerful Western forces but they didn't gain control of Jerusalem as the setting of the Harlot sitting...

Earlier you agreed that God would at least know what it was like:




Your position has been that God should have foreseen suffering in all human lives and make a judgment call that we shouldn't...

It would exist in the mind of an omniscient God just as sure as if it really existed, as said it would be like a memory of billions of people who really existed.



What if it could be done...

ok

How can you ask for discussion of an all natural and all material God, then insist that we avoid hypotheticals, without shifting goalposts? You can't. Especially in asking atheists to talk about it,...

Discussion of an all natural and all material God REQUIRES a hypothetical to explain such a thing, but you shifted goalposts to prevent discussion of it:





And then you moved on to asking...

It's ok to question concepts, and even Christians themselves, like TV preachers who are obviously just in it for the money, or RCC officials who let corruption slide. It's just when we get into...

Daniel didn't understand Nebuchadnezzar's vision either, he also required explanation same as with the 4 Beasts:


Daniel 2:19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then...

For example:


Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

The term resurrection here...

Absolutely since I provided him with an example of an all natural and all material god being the universe itself, and he chose to ignore it by shifting goalposts to question the existence of any god...

I put these together to make the points:

If you think God should have ended this world before it began to prevent suffering, why would you not advocate ending this world right now to prevent more...

According to the concept, the omniscient Father could see what would happen if He did not stop the non-omniscient Son from creating things resulting in evil. He could see us as little babies, the joy...

I can understand why the defeat of Antiochus Epiphanes might be seen as the stone crushing the metals since Jews hoped that would be the end of Gentile rule of Jerusalem, but Rome was yet to come....

I'm not sure it matters what we would think or regret about it, rather it matters what God would be thinking about it, since His intentions are actually what determines a good or evil nature as...

I think prostitution and promiscuity in general has a negative and degrading moral effect on people, and wouldn't be quite the same as being in a non-sexual maid or butler capacity.

So again, without evil we would not exist. For example when we misbehaved as children which all of us did, wouldn't it have hurt our feelings if our parents told us they wished we never existed...

There's no exegetical reason to think the Brass and Iron of Daniel's 4th Beast do not correspond to the Brass and Iron of Nebuchadnezzar's 4 Metals, since in both, they are said to be Kingdoms. It's...

I address involuntary my last post, but I don't see any problems with being a lifelong slave either. If you have goods to offer for sale including yourself and it doesn't hurt anyone, then why not....

I also wouldn't think it immoral to force prisoners already tried and found guilty to work to pay off costs of their trials and confinement. Which as mentioned was likely one reason for biblical...

Voluntary slavery or indentured servitude should not be considered immoral, like if one chooses to use that means to pay off credit card or mortgage debts. The greater evil would seem to be forcing...

I don't get the impression that Nebuchadnezzar was bedazzled by the Metals, but rather he was disturbed by the dream:


Daniel 2:3 And the king said unto them, I have dreamed a dream, and my...

Sorry I missed your reply. What if one child killed the other 4 and never felt sorry about it, would you cut him out of your life until he repented?

What do you think about ethics of causing a...

You cited yourself, "Understand what Eusebius said about it:"


GREEK BRASS: "...and then the third kingdom of the Macedonians, signified by the brass..." Daniel 2:39
STAGES OF JEWS: "...by these...

Could it be that they really thought Jesus would be a warrior Messiah to deliver them from Rome, and when they saw him crucified it crushed their faith, despite all the miracles they saw? Even Peter...

Since you state repeatedly, "the universe where we are existing in has a beginning some 13.7 billion years ago" -- have you experienced living in the universe for 13.7 billion years? If not then you...

Yeah they are "what ifs" to get a better idea of what would seem benevolent to you, but it seems the example strays too far and is irrelevant, I agree.



My basic belief is still that the Son...

Yeah it does, and I know that acceptable reasons may vary greatly from one person to the next. For example trapping someone in a cage as a joke may seem evil and torturous to one person, but simply a...

A "good" reason wouldn't be in terms of morality, but justifiability, which would often relate to goals. For example, causing suffering by putting someone in a cage for no good reason is evil, but...

What would you say to a Trinity where the Son had no omniscience to know what kind of world he was creating but all power to create, and the Father had omniscience and no power prevent or tamper with...

Shouldn't it be pretty much a universal standard that evil could in part be defined objectively as, causing others to suffer for no good reason? Of course societies can then debate about what...

Taking a look at just this section to start, if you adhere to it, I would question: if the 4 Beasts correspond exactly to each of the 4 Metals -- where both Beasts and Metals would in order be...