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  1. [QUOTE=Sparko;652325]What are you smoking? You...

    [QUOTE=Sparko;652325]What are you smoking? You made up a reason why gun homicides went down but supplied no source to back up your imagination. I guess I could just say gun violence went down after...
  2. Presenting statistics and then making an...

    Presenting statistics and then making an association is the same as making stuff up, you just agreed with that.

    I made an association between murder rates and the crack epidemic - which, btw, is...
  3. Yeah, nah. First, the crack epidemic extended...

    Yeah, nah. First, the crack epidemic extended into the 90s. Second, I'm not the one that's making associations between things that are by no way verified - I.e., making stuff up. That was the premise...
  4. Gun crime by criminals is almost non-existent in...

    Gun crime by criminals is almost non-existent in New Zealand. Violent crime is low. Same in Germany. So yes, regulating guns reduces gun crime - even among criminals. This is just common sense.
    ...
  5. End of the crack epidemic, where murder was...

    End of the crack epidemic, where murder was fueled by guns and crack. Completely unrelated to more guns. Meanwhile, the murder rate in the US remains 5x that of most developed countries - can you...
  6. No, they settled down to half those of the...

    No, they settled down to half those of the pre-ban period by 2018. That is a HUGE reduction - half the number of people murdered. They also did not 'sharply spike', 'total homicide and related...
  7. The murder rate in Australia fell from 1.7 per...

    The murder rate in Australia fell from 1.7 per 100,000 in 1996 to 0.9 per 100,000 in 2018 - official statistics.
  8. B-but, is where MM is pulling his statistics from...

    B-but, is where MM is pulling his statistics from - the murder rate in Australia fell from 1.7 per 100,000 in 1996 to 0.9 per 100,000 in 2018.

    How is the US murder rate, ohh 5.3 per 100,000,...
  9. No, the irony is that the countries with the...

    No, the irony is that the countries with the strictest gun laws have some of the lowest level of murder rates. Many of those countries have cities - some of them are even quite dense. Much like many...
  10. Rare compared to where? This is almost...

    Rare compared to where? This is almost nonsensical. Germany has a murder rate of 1.0, thus 5x less than that of the US. It has a huge population. I could cobble together all of Western Europe and...
  11. In New Zealand and in Australia, the highest...

    In New Zealand and in Australia, the highest death tolls from any massacre occurred with a semiautomatic. They make mass murder too easy. That is why they are banned. Terrorists could use other...
  12. Yeah, good one Sparko. Semiautomatics...

    Yeah, good one Sparko.

    Semiautomatics resulted in the highest death tolls for massacres in New Zealand and Australia. That is why the weapons are banned. You don't like it, then don't move here....
  13. Close to what? Again, the top end of massacres in...

    Close to what? Again, the top end of massacres in terms of dead and injured in both country were the result of semiautomatic weapons. End of point. The type of weapon that has been banned in both...
  14. As we said, these types of weapons are just too...

    As we said, these types of weapons are just too dangerous - it's too easy to kill people with them. Your argument is that it's just as easy with other types of weapons, we do not agree with that...
  15. I concede the point. And will leave the thread.

    I concede the point. And will leave the thread.
  16. Is it? You appear to have some standard of what...

    Is it? You appear to have some standard of what is and is not allowed. I assume nuclear weapons are not allowed? I don't see how this is a straw man.
  17. But if you have a gun, then they too will come...

    But if you have a gun, then they too will come with a gun, now its a gun fight. Gun fights tend to end badly. I really don't see it as improving safety. Law enforcement current comes down very hard...
  18. So, nuclear arms?

    So, nuclear arms?
  19. Violent crime rates in Europe remain much much...

    Violent crime rates in Europe remain much much lower than in the US, while gun crime is hardly comparable. While a small number of criminals use guns, law enforcement tends to take a very dim view,...
  20. Yes, a number of incidents on a relatively high...

    Yes, a number of incidents on a relatively high population. The US by comparison of school shootings? There is no perfect system. I do not want to live in a police state. Germany is not a police...
  21. Then I made a mistake about the difference...

    Then I made a mistake about the difference between the weapon types. My limit was the type of weapon that can result in a Christchurch style mass shooting. I understood that he had in someway...
  22. It seems to me that acquiring a gun of sufficient...

    It seems to me that acquiring a gun of sufficient quality to use in a terrorist attack in Europe is not that easy, but I could be wrong.
  23. I know the difference in so far as it is not hard...

    I know the difference in so far as it is not hard to convert a semi-automatic into something similar to automatic. Or at least, sufficiently automatic to give rise to its use in mass shootings.


    ...
  24. Well, I was also aiming for semi-automatics that...

    Well, I was also aiming for semi-automatics that could easily be converted into automatic weapons. So, if you agreed that the first is hard to acquire, then the second too should be hard to acquire....
  25. This isn't deflection. This is pointing out that...

    This isn't deflection. This is pointing out that 1) I don't trust your figures (no offence but they are likely to be biased) and 2) who knows what other factors influenced the situation in Australia...
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