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    My claim is "no proof is possible" for claims...

    My claim is "no proof is possible" for claims about universal/absolute concepts. I have shown that any attempt to prove statements about these principals necessarily involves us in circular thinking,...
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    Make a logical argument for why this must be so....

    Make a logical argument for why this must be so.



    You apparently believe you have made that case, Seer, but you have not - for the reasons I have already cited. a) your argument is circular,...
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    Seer, a logical argument has premises, and a...

    Seer, a logical argument has premises, and a conclusion. You provided three god-centered premises to conclude, "Therefore conceptual logical absolutes exist universally." I provided a couple...
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    I presumed as much since that is what your...

    I presumed as much since that is what your argument was concluding.



    That is not what your argument says. Your argument is a valid (but not shown to be sound) argument arguing that logical...
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    First - I had to rewrite my previous post because...

    First - I had to rewrite my previous post because of an error I made. Frankly, I'm surprised you did not call me out on it.



    Your argument is circular. The concepts of soundness and validity...
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    No - I agreed your argument is not "internally"...

    No - I agreed your argument is not "internally" circular. It is (presumably) a valid syllogism. However your argument is a special case because it deals with the nature of logical principles. You are...
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    And it is responses like this that lead me to...

    And it is responses like this that lead me to think you do not understand, nor know how to apply, logical principles. Uttering "nonsense" and asserting "it's not circular" doesn't avoid the problem....
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    The syllogism is not internally circular. The...

    The syllogism is not internally circular. The entire argument is circular because:

    a) you are trying to show that the laws of logic are absolute and universal
    b) you have to assume the laws of...
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    So, first, I said "presumably sound." The reason...

    So, first, I said "presumably sound." The reason I included "presumably" was because your argument is not structured as a proper syllogism. However, I think it could be broken into two proper...
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    My wife no longer goes to a church on any regular...

    My wife no longer goes to a church on any regular basis, so I no longer go. I never went regularly, but I did go occasionally (when she did) if she asked me to accompany her for special occasions...
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    MM, the term "objectively meaningful in and of...

    MM, the term "objectively meaningful in and of itself" is an oxymoron. Meaning is a value assigned to a symbol by a sentient mind. Without the sentient mind, it does not exist. A mountain is an...
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    Seer, when someone makes the statement that the...

    Seer, when someone makes the statement that the car is not starting because the ignition circuit in the tailpipe is malfunctioning, I conclude they lack a certain understanding about cars.

    When...
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    Adrift, note the pattern of these last two posts....

    Adrift, note the pattern of these last two posts. They are marvelous examples of my earlier statement about people here not being able to stay with the argument at hand, instead diverting to...
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    If you read my posts, Adrift, you will see that I...

    If you read my posts, Adrift, you will see that I have responded to this flawed explanation several times. So far, the response is being ignored, and all that happens is the same failed explanation...
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    So, no. People give meaning to words, by...

    So, no. People give meaning to words, by subjectively creating an association between a selected (or created) symbol and an objective (or subjective) reality. In the case of language, take the...
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    Zyzzyva! (and you're wrong... :wink:)

    Zyzzyva!

    (and you're wrong... :wink:)
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    HAP, as my wife and I say - which means "heard...

    HAP, as my wife and I say - which means "heard and processing." It's our way of telling each other that we are listening and considering. The phenomenon of "only interested in arguing" is one I am...
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    That subjective meaning exists (i.e., is real)...

    That subjective meaning exists (i.e., is real) and is used by all of us every day.

    Even attempting to refute it is self-defeating, because he has to use symbols/words (whose meaning is...
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    Yes. I actually work at it, and am generally...

    Yes. I actually work at it, and am generally successful. Just not as successful as Adrift.



    Or you are reading "ad hominem" where there is none... :shrug:



    Your opinion is duly noted...
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    Umm... yeah... I knew that... :whistle:

    Umm... yeah... I knew that... :whistle:
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    You guys seem to continually think I am somehow...

    You guys seem to continually think I am somehow offended. For the record:

    "That is inappropriate"

    and

    "I am offended"

    are two separate concepts. Assuming the latter when the former has...
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    The same justification there is for having a...

    The same justification there is for having a moral framework to begin with: to distinguish "ought" action from "ought not" action, which is to protect/enhance/nurture that which we value.



    Max,...
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    First, I make no claim to "superior" moral system...

    First, I make no claim to "superior" moral system in any absolute sense, for obvious reasons. Like everyone else, I think the morals I hold are "the right ones." If I didn't, they would be different....
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    I have read and understood your post. We...

    I have read and understood your post. We disagree. And you are incorrect that I am "offended." I pointed out what was, IMO, an inappropriate post. I wouldn't have given it another thought if the...
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    Oh I think not. Go back and reread carefully, MM....

    Oh I think not. Go back and reread carefully, MM. If this is the thread I am remembering it follows a familiar pattern:

    ...back and forth...
    ...carpe points out something MM cannot logically...
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