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    So an interesting question: Each person has...

    So an interesting question:

    Each person has emotions that we enjoy - and emotions we do not enjoy. The ones we enjoy we call "pleasurable" and the ones we do not we call "displeasing" or...
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    I have not encountered anything with a better...

    I have not encountered anything with a better "explanatory" power, Jim. If I had, I would believe/think differently. As I have noted, the arguments for morality as an exercise rooted in objective...
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    No - if someone is making a claim about unicorns...

    No - if someone is making a claim about unicorns objectively existing, then the claim is (as far as we know) false, because they do not exist objectively (or at least have never been shown to). They...
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    Again - you are assuming your conclusion. A thing...

    Again - you are assuming your conclusion. A thing does not cease to exist because it is subjective. My love of pizza exists - but it exists subjectively in me. The concept of a unicorn also exists,...
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    Since rational judgement presupposes some ground...

    Since rational judgement presupposes some ground apart from the judgement on which for it to be based, the denial of objectivism implies the intrinsic impossibility of rational moral judgement,since...
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    The "laws of nature" did not create me. My...

    The "laws of nature" did not create me. My parents created me. The laws of nature are simply a description of the how the universe in which they live operates. I'm pretty sure my parents intended...
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    Unfortunately for him (if that is what he is...

    Unfortunately for him (if that is what he is doing), his explanation doesn't work, since what is or is not moral is something I determine for myself. The individual always has primacy. If you think...
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    What do you mean "how does it work?" The species...

    What do you mean "how does it work?" The species strove to exist as long as it existed, but lost the battle. What's the problem? :huh:



    Apparently not - because I am part of "nature" and I have...
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    As I was reading this response, it dawned on me...

    As I was reading this response, it dawned on me that Tass and Seer are both wrong about the highlighted line (highlights added by me). Tass captures the reason later in the line. As living creatures...
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    Not sure what you are asking. I'm simply...

    Not sure what you are asking. I'm simply suggesting that you haven't, IMO, provided adequate justification for abandoning the language of morality on the basis of individual vs. society. Ergo, I see...
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    First, I didn't say it was "simple" or "easily...

    First, I didn't say it was "simple" or "easily quantifiable." Indeed, there is significant variation from person to person. But that is indeed the basis for how individuals arrive at their moral...
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    Moral principles don't derive from a society,...

    Moral principles don't derive from a society, Tass. The society can and does influence them, as does family, religion, and a variety of personal experiences. But morality arises from the individual...
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    Yes - they do. Which is why humans tend to...

    Yes - they do. Which is why humans tend to reserve the word "morality" for classification of actions that relate to the things we hold most precious.



    That's, umm, pretty vague.
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    I am familiar, Adrift. But Plato's "forms" have...

    I am familiar, Adrift. But Plato's "forms" have many flaws as a model for reality, as I'm sure you know. Basing an entire theology, as well as a moral structure, on them inherits those flaws and...
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    Your asking the wrong question. The "what" part...

    Your asking the wrong question. The "what" part is fine, because we will define which actions we "ought" and "ought not" do - that is the process we call "morality." But the "to whom" is off. Even...
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    The problem with all of this is that it treats...

    The problem with all of this is that it treats "good" as if it were some intrinsic attribute that something can have. "Good" is an assessment. "Bad" is an assessment. They are value judgments. They...
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    I'm aware it's what you think - but it's simply...

    I'm aware it's what you think - but it's simply not supported by the conventional definitions and usage of the terms. Nor is it supported by the obvious existence of moral principles that are not...
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    Just want you to know I am not ignoring you....

    Just want you to know I am not ignoring you. However, I'm on a business trip (teaching a 5-day class) and I only have time for short responses (if at all). Your posts require more thought and time,...
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    :popcorn:

    :popcorn:
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    I've done a bit of poking around, visiting at...

    I've done a bit of poking around, visiting at least five different dictionaries and philosophical sources. All of the definitions of "moral" and "morality" are some variation of: "principles...
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    It would be terrible to you, because you value...

    It would be terrible to you, because you value life and harmony, two metrics you have subjectively chosen. Most of us do, so most of us would agree with you. But the adrenaline junkie who values the...
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    Anyone who values life will see "random killing"...

    Anyone who values life will see "random killing" as a moral evil (as I do). Anyone who values life will see a prohibition against random killing as a "good" for a society (as I do). Someone who...
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    Jim - a society does not assess anything....

    Jim - a society does not assess anything. Individuals do. And individuals will assess what is "good" for a society on the basis of subjective preferences and subjectively selected metrics. Most of...
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    Again, Jim, you are using the word "absolute" in...

    Again, Jim, you are using the word "absolute" in a sense that I do not think you can support/defend. And we have already had the discussion about your use of "good." You are attempting to carve out...
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    This phrase (see emphasis), and others like it,...

    This phrase (see emphasis), and others like it, seem to pepper your posts. It leaves the impression that somehow you think "made up ideas" are somehow bad, wrong, fiction, or false (I'm not sure...
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