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    Agreed... Blessings, Lee

    Agreed...

    Blessings,
    Lee
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    Yes, for his own good purposes. True, though...

    Yes, for his own good purposes.


    True, though Job was tested, was he not?

    "But he knows the way that I take; when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold." (Job 23:10)


    Yes. I was...
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    If you knew I would be mugged if you drove me to...

    If you knew I would be mugged if you drove me to the bank, you could say that you led me into being mugged.


    Yes, agreed.


    "Moved" would involve some drawing, though, would it not? And thus...
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    But I think Baker is quite serious in his claim...

    But I think Baker is quite serious in his claim to be able to do better than nature. Eberlin is then saying that this would be a good test of design, if we are unable to substantially do better.

    ...
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    It's possible to get near-optimal results, it's...

    It's possible to get near-optimal results, it's just unlikely, implies Baker.


    Well, that's kind of the essence of the opening post! That nature has no insight for a goal, and so humans with...
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    Yes, agreed, yet Job was led by God (ultimately),...

    Yes, agreed, yet Job was led by God (ultimately), into temptation / testing. What we would pray for then is to seek and find God, to be refined in his presence, and not through trial and temptation....
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    Well, yes, that's part of Behe's argument, that...

    Well, yes, that's part of Behe's argument, that breaking genes can provide a selective advantage. I don't think anyone is arguing against that, here.

    Blessings,
    Lee
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    Though the APOB gene in the polar bear was what...

    Though the APOB gene in the polar bear was what Behe focused on, to provide an advantage in a high-fat diet, as I recall.

    Blessings,
    Lee
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    I'm quoting Baker, and accurately, I think. How...

    I'm quoting Baker, and accurately, I think. How is it that I've misrepresented what he said?


    I've responded to you all, and Baker is attempting to out-do nature. We shall see...

    Blessings,...
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    Well, what I'm saying is a bit different, Baker...

    Well, what I'm saying is a bit different, Baker is confident that human intelligence can exceed what bumbling nature can do. I would agree with him, and if it turns out that evolution is...
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    And God was behind it all, "have you considered...

    And God was behind it all, "have you considered my servant Job?" (Job 1:8), knowing that the devil would then test Job.

    Blessings,
    Lee
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    "To be tempted" was the reason he was led into...

    "To be tempted" was the reason he was led into the desert, though.


    Yes, well, the idea of tempting by the devil is there in the word "moved": "Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David...
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    If humans are unable to improve substantially on...

    If humans are unable to improve substantially on bumbling nature, then we have reason to believe that nature did not stumble around and find its enzymes, i.e. something outside of nature produced...
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    Well, usually acting by breaking stuff, is the...

    Well, usually acting by breaking stuff, is the argument. And this would indeed be an example of evolution breaking stuff, to convey an advantage.

    Blessings,
    Lee
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    But the Holy Spirit is God. He was tempted...

    But the Holy Spirit is God.


    He was tempted by the devil (1 Chr. 21:1) to number Israel, at the incitement of the (anger of the) Lord (2 Sam. 24:1)

    Blessings,
    Lee
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    "Oh! look not after great things: small...

    "Oh! look not after great things: small breathings, small desires after the Lord, if true and pure, are sweet beginnings of life. You must become a child, you must lose your own will quite by...
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    No one here is arguing that Dr. Baker is a...

    No one here is arguing that Dr. Baker is a supporter of ID. If however, his prediction fails, that would be some evidence for design.


    Certainly they are different.

    Blessings,
    Lee
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    Agreed, God does not tempt anyone, but he did...

    Agreed, God does not tempt anyone, but he did lead Jesus into temptation.


    Well, what about David?

    "Now again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to...
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    No, Dr. Baker is saying we should be able to do...

    No, Dr. Baker is saying we should be able to do much better than evolution.

    Blessings,
    Lee
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    Yet the Spirit led Jesus into temptation (Mt....

    Yet the Spirit led Jesus into temptation (Mt. 4:1).


    Quite true.


    No, the statement is clearly "lead us not into temptation", see John Piper's analysis, and most Bible translations.
    ...
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    Indeed, John Piper is arguing that the change is...

    Indeed, John Piper is arguing that the change is incorrect, and for the wrong reason.


    Well, this is a substantial change, which changes the meaning of the phrase. So I could see why mossrose is...
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    Changing the Lord's Prayer

    Now that the pope has changed the Lord's Prayer, John Piper weighs in. The change in question is changing "lead us not into temptation" to "do not let us fall into temptation" (in Mt. 6:13).

    My...
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    Well, I did look into the papers and we've...

    Well, I did look into the papers and we've discussed them, the discussion has gone on for 12 pages, so I think I will leave it at that now...

    Blessings,
    Lee
  24. Thread: Happiness.

    by lee_merrill
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    "If anyone could tell you the shortest, surest...

    "If anyone could tell you the shortest, surest way to all happiness and perfection, he must tell you to make it a rule to yourself to thank and praise God for everything that happens to you. For it...
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    Yes, we should be able to beat such a process....

    Yes, we should be able to beat such a process. "Itís an interesting reverse test of intelligent design, donít you think?"

    Blessings,
    Lee
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