Books we read.

[Raphael]

This is following a looong arguement via email with my one brother, and a calm discussion on the phone with another brother. (I have three older brothers...we're all stubborn and we get quite heated in our discussions)

My first brother, Greg mailed the three of us one of those "send this to all your friends" emails that was based on an article from the Onion about JK Rowling.

Now I have read her books, and while I feel they're ok, there are fantasy authors I prefer over her. (Raymond Fiest, RA Salvatore, David Gemmel, David Eddings, and my personal favourite, Terry Pratchett)

First off Greg thinks that no born again Christian should read a fantasy book. (considering all fiction is basically a fantasy, I have serious problems with that.

Then chatting with my brother Adrian over the phone, he said we shouldn't read it as she does openly promote witchcraft, and that despite her claims of being a Christian that she is a white witch, that the Church of Scotland, of which she is a member, is accepting of witchcraft and deeply superstisious. (he bases that information on his wife's family in England who are members of the Church of Scotland, I can find no support for that on the net).

Personally, from what I can see though, Rowling is a Christian. Have some people been decieved by her books and led down the path to wicca? Possibly, but I don't think that was her intention.

Oddly enough, Adrian is a Tolkien fan.

So here is the question: should we as Christians read books, for entertainment and relaxing, specifically fantasy novels, that portray witchcraft in a favourable light or should we "...Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. " (Romans 12:9, ESV)

[semmie]

So here is the question: should we as Christians read books, for entertainment and relaxing, specifically fantasy novels, that portray witchcraft in a favourable light or should we "...Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. " (Romans 12:9, ESV)

i think we should be careful.

i enjoy fantasy novels. even more, i have a great deal of respect for a person who can write fantasy. and the truth of the matter is that there aren't many christian fantasy writers out there today. i'm not even sure what "christian fantasy" would look like. and if you enjoy reading fantasy, then i don't think there's anything necessarily sinful about reading it.

i do think, however, that as christians, we are charged with some standard higher than simply "what we enjoy" or "what entertains us" or "what will help us relax." and i also think it is easy to let your guard down, and fill your mind and heart with things that, as a christian, you know are contrary to the person of christ.

so whether you are reading or watching a movie or listening to music, etc...be careful.

i dunno. what do you think?

[Raphael]

As you said, I think that we should always approach things with caution...

If you have a problem with reading fantasy (where it's more real to you than the real world) then stop reading it.
If you read it, and it's nothing more than a way to pass the time, well then great.

(That being said there are some fantasy books I have started reading, the content got to where I wasn't happy with what was written there, so I closed the book and never read it again)

[Celtic moon]

If you read it, and it's nothing more than a way to pass the time, well then great.

Eph 5:15-16 " See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil."



The puritans et al prior to 1600 would take a different stance, as the goal of most children’s literature then was to redeem the time in order to bring the child to the question, ‘What must I do to be saved?’. A child learned to read in order to read the bible.

Interesting enough, after the reformation, much of the literature for children was taken from sermons. One out of 8 sermons were preached directly to the children of the congregation. So a proper book for a child would have either included a sermon, examples of divine judgement on sinners or stories of early piety and deaths that were edifying. Wicked children were not idolized in their stories, but used to show the end of sin.


An author writing merely to entertain a child would have been thought sinful. Romance stories, novels and fiction were considered ‘vile’ because they distracted ones time from being spent in soul-searching and edification. Fiction was seen as a rejection of truth and reality making it meaningless .

perhaps if we just asked ourselves a few critical questions when choosing reading material we may choose different books or even none at all ...

• Is the purpose of the book to entertain , pass the time or just to fill ourselves with head knowledge and information?
  
• Does the book reject God’s Word and His authority as the only means to govern our lives?
  
• Are man’s ways being exalted over what God says?
  
• Is there a standard for right and wrong?
  
• Does the book show an action with it’s corresponding results?
  
• Does the book display a series of chance happenings, luck or lucky coincidences?
  
• Is wickedness seen as profitable as appealing?
  
• Is hard work seen as a blessing or something to be avoided?

[TheAnalogman]

This is following a looong arguement via email with my one brother, and a calm discussion on the phone with another brother. (I have three older brothers...we're all stubborn and we get quite heated in our discussions)

My first brother, Greg mailed the three of us one of those "send this to all your friends" emails that was based on an article from the Onion about JK Rowling.

Now I have read her books, and while I feel they're ok, there are fantasy authors I prefer over her. (Raymond Fiest, RA Salvatore, David Gemmel, David Eddings, and my personal favourite, Terry Pratchett)

First off Greg thinks that no born again Christian should read a fantasy book. (considering all fiction is basically a fantasy, I have serious problems with that.

Then chatting with my brother Adrian over the phone, he said we shouldn't read it as she does openly promote witchcraft, and that despite her claims of being a Christian that she is a white witch, that the Church of Scotland, of which she is a member, is accepting of witchcraft and deeply superstisious. (he bases that information on his wife's family in England who are members of the Church of Scotland, I can find no support for that on the net).

Personally, from what I can see though, Rowling is a Christian. Have some people been decieved by her books and led down the path to wicca? Possibly, but I don't think that was her intention.

Oddly enough, Adrian is a Tolkien fan.

So here is the question: should we as Christians read books, for entertainment and relaxing, specifically fantasy novels, that portray witchcraft in a favourable light or should we "...Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. " (Romans 12:9, ESV)

Hello Raphael!
My answer is easy. We in America have sooo much free time that we've developed a "entertain me" mindset, and often have that as our highest priority.
What movie? Which book? What Sports game?? What will I do for my entertainment??
It's my right!
To say that recreation time is sin is legalistic and wrong, we all need to relax now and then, to have a bit of fun. But to make that the cornerstone of one's life is wrong. Read what you want, if you're a bit confused pray about it. Remember that if it is done without faith it is sin.
I read maybe three fiction books a year. I just don't want to waste time anymore like I have done. I have also found that giving/serving really is more gratifying than getting.

[Raphael]

Eph 5:15-16 " See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil."

I hope you don't mind, I prefer using the ESV: Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil.

The puritans et al prior to 1600 would take a different stance, as the goal of most children’s literature then was to redeem the time in order to bring the child to the question, ‘What must I do to be saved?’. A child learned to read in order to read the bible.

Interesting enough, after the reformation, much of the literature for children was taken from sermons. One out of 8 sermons were preached directly to the children of the congregation. So a proper book for a child would have either included a sermon, examples of divine judgement on sinners or stories of early piety and deaths that were edifying. Wicked children were not idolized in their stories, but used to show the end of sin.


An author writing merely to entertain a child would have been thought sinful. Romance stories, novels and fiction were considered ‘vile’ because they distracted ones time from being spent in soul-searching and edification. Fiction was seen as a rejection of truth and reality making it meaningless .

I didn't know that about the puritans It's interresting

perhaps if we just asked ourselves a few critical questions when choosing reading material we may choose different books or even none at all ...

• Is the purpose of the book to entertain , pass the time or just to fill ourselves with head knowledge and information?
  
• Does the book reject God’s Word and His authority as the only means to govern our lives?
  
• Are man’s ways being exalted over what God says?
  
• Is there a standard for right and wrong?
  
• Does the book show an action with it’s corresponding results?
  
• Does the book display a series of chance happenings, luck or lucky coincidences?
  
• Is wickedness seen as profitable as appealing?
  
• Is hard work seen as a blessing or something to be avoided?

certainly some points to ponder.

Hello Raphael!
My answer is easy. We in America have sooo much free time that we've developed a "entertain me" mindset, and often have that as our highest priority.
What movie? Which book? What Sports game?? What will I do for my entertainment??
It's my right!

I think that's pretty much the same across most of the world. Only those places where food is more important don't really have the attitude.

To say that recreation time is sin is legalistic and wrong, we all need to relax now and then, to have a bit of fun. But to make that the cornerstone of one's life is wrong. Read what you want, if you're a bit confused pray about it. Remember that if it is done without faith it is sin.

I agree completely.
I consider reading for relaxation to be unwinding time.
But if anything is replacing Christ as the cornerstone of your life, then you need to cut it out of your life.

I read maybe three fiction books a year. I just don't want to waste time anymore like I have done. I have also found that giving/serving really is more gratifying than getting.

[TheAnalogman]

I think that's pretty much the same across most of the world. Only those places where food is more important don't really have the attitude.

I dunno about that, it seemed to me several places I've been, especially around the Mediterranean, had more of a work and family orientation paradigm vice entertainment.
Anywho....the puritans had some good ideas there, eh?

[Raphael]

I dunno about that, it seemed to me several places I've been, especially around the Mediterranean, had more of a work and family orientation paradigm vice entertainment.
Anywho....the puritans had some good ideas there, eh?

South Africa has an entertainment mindset, and that extend even to the refugees from Zimbabwe etc.

Yeah they did. It certainly is something to think about....I doubt they would be happy about my playing paintball.

It does beg the question of were they being too legalistic, or were they onto something?

The internet consists of possibly 90% waste of time trash. And it's only getting worse with the likes of you-tube and bored teenagers making dirty films on their cellphone cameras (a rapidly increasing trend in South Africa).
People definately expect on-demand entertainment, and we've become lazy, we're happy to spend our time staring at a box that doesn't even involve thought (I read about a study that suggest our brains are less active watching TV than when sleeping)

And the puritans, for all them seeming very legalistic today (wouldn't Rick Warren have a fit), gave rise to men who did not consider it beyond them to challenge the world...and win.

Defintaly something to ponder.

[Elegy]

This is following a looong arguement via email with my one brother, and a calm discussion on the phone with another brother. (I have three older brothers...we're all stubborn and we get quite heated in our discussions)

My first brother, Greg mailed the three of us one of those "send this to all your friends" emails that was based on an article from the Onion about JK Rowling.

Now I have read her books, and while I feel they're ok, there are fantasy authors I prefer over her. (Raymond Fiest, RA Salvatore, David Gemmel, David Eddings, and my personal favourite, Terry Pratchett)

First off Greg thinks that no born again Christian should read a fantasy book. (considering all fiction is basically a fantasy, I have serious problems with that.

Then chatting with my brother Adrian over the phone, he said we shouldn't read it as she does openly promote witchcraft, and that despite her claims of being a Christian that she is a white witch, that the Church of Scotland, of which she is a member, is accepting of witchcraft and deeply superstisious. (he bases that information on his wife's family in England who are members of the Church of Scotland, I can find no support for that on the net).

Personally, from what I can see though, Rowling is a Christian. Have some people been decieved by her books and led down the path to wicca? Possibly, but I don't think that was her intention.

Oddly enough, Adrian is a Tolkien fan.

So here is the question: should we as Christians read books, for entertainment and relaxing, specifically fantasy novels, that portray witchcraft in a favourable light or should we "...Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. " (Romans 12:9, ESV)

[disclaimer: I have never read Harry Potter, so I cannot speak for that series.]

First of all, I love fantasy. And I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it. That's because--in most cases, at least--it does not promote witchcraft. Fantasy is just that--fantasy. Make believe. In most fantasy worlds, "magic" is not something performed using demonic aids or anything of that sort. It is merely a natural physical force that exists, the same as gravity or electromagnetism. According to this view, would I be tempted in any way to try to use magic myself? No--no more than I would go jump from a skyscraper after reading a Superman comic strip, for instance. Unless I were out of touch with reality, I would realize that the magic in fantasy books is not real and is not present on earth. It's only pretend. However, there might be some people who don't understand it that way. There is always the possibility, however slim, that some might be led to participate in witchcraft by reading such material.

So, one of the things it comes down to is this: are you being a good witness? If a nonbeliever sees you reading something questionable, how will it affect him? Just as importantly, are you being a good influence on other Christians? Could you possibly cause them to act against their consciences? If you are in a position of influence over weaker brethren, is it really worth risking their relationship with God just for your own personal entertainment? (See Romans 14.)

You also have to consider the influence of fantasy books on yourself--as, of course, you should do for ALL books. The main thing you need to think about when judging a book is whether it uplifts you in your Christian walk, or causes you to fall away from God. Also, how discerning are you? How good are you at judging right from wrong? Are you easily led astray by what you read, or do you "test everything against Scripture" by habit? If you can answer these questions about yourself honestly, it should help you to determine better what you should and shouldn't read.

Others in this thread have made some really good points about the prevalent "entertain me!" mindset. So, is reading fantasy a waste of your time? Recreation is valuable, but it shouldn't be the only thing you do. A lot of good life lessons can be learned by reading fiction, but in the end, your time might be better spent reading the nonfiction works of Christian authors, or best of all, God's Word itself. Prioritizing your time is a very important element in your choice of reading material.

So, to wrap up what I'm saying--whether or not it's okay to read fantasy depends mostly on the individual person and the individual book. If a person has godly discernment, is not harming his or her testimony, is not putting fantasy ahead of God, and does not read books that glorify sin and wickedness--then I'd say fantasy is fine for him or her.

[Just Some Dude]

First of all, I love fantasy. And I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it. That's because--in most cases, at least--it does not promote witchcraft. Fantasy is just that--fantasy. Make believe. In most fantasy worlds, "magic" is not something performed using demonic aids or anything of that sort. It is merely a natural physical force that exists, the same as gravity or electromagnetism. According to this view, would I be tempted in any way to try to use magic myself? No--no more than I would go jump from a skyscraper after reading a Superman comic strip, for instance. Unless I were out of touch with reality, I would realize that the magic in fantasy books is not real and is not present on earth. It's only pretend. However, there might be some people who don't understand it that way. There is always the possibility, however slim, that some might be led to participate in witchcraft by reading such material.

I think there's a bit of a difference between Superman flying and magic though. Superman flying is obviously fictional (and everyone regards it as such), but magic does have its real world counterpart of questionable nature (most here agree it is of an evil nature). As you said, there is that slim chance that someone seeing the witchcraft in fiction and may stumble because of it, whereas with Superman flying, anyone who tries to fly like him isn't stumbling, they're being moronic (not the best choice of wording, I hope you get what I mean). "Just fiction" isn't enough to immunize something for being a potential stumbling block or flat out wrong. It's fiction, it's not going to be legalistic and strictly according to reality, but it shouldn't be a stumbling block (especially since so many people have their brains turned off when reading fiction), nor should it lead people astray.

[Elegy]

I think there's a bit of a difference between Superman flying and magic though. Superman flying is obviously fictional (and everyone regards it as such), but magic does have its real world counterpart of questionable nature (most here agree it is of an evil nature). As you said, there is that slim chance that someone seeing the witchcraft in fiction and may stumble because of it, whereas with Superman flying, anyone who tries to fly like him isn't stumbling, they're being moronic (not the best choice of wording, I hope you get what I mean). "Just fiction" isn't enough to immunize something for being a potential stumbling block or flat out wrong. It's fiction, it's not going to be legalistic and strictly according to reality, but it shouldn't be a stumbling block (especially since so many people have their brains turned off when reading fiction), nor should it lead people astray.

You're right about the Superman analogy, but I was just trying to convey the general idea that very, very few people, if any, turn to the occult because of reading fantasy. The paragraph you replied to is my personal take on the "magic" present in fantasy, and why it is not "flat-out wrong." Obviously, it does have the potential to be a stumbling block in some cases, though (which I explained in the rest of my post).

I certainly don't think that saying something is "just fiction" is a good excuse for any immorality contained within, and I wasn't trying to give that impression at all. I just don't believe that fantasy, in and of itself, is wrong.

[Just Some Dude]

Oh no, fantasy in and of itself isn't wrong (although I would be happy to see less people write fantasy "just cause its fun," and rather write it with some better purpose in mind).

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

I think there's a bit of a difference between Superman flying and magic though. Superman flying is obviously fictional (and everyone regards it as such), but magic does have its real world counterpart of questionable nature (most here agree it is of an evil nature). As you said, there is that slim chance that someone seeing the witchcraft in fiction and may stumble because of it, whereas with Superman flying, anyone who tries to fly like him isn't stumbling, they're being moronic (not the best choice of wording, I hope you get what I mean). "Just fiction" isn't enough to immunize something for being a potential stumbling block or flat out wrong. It's fiction, it's not going to be legalistic and strictly according to reality, but it shouldn't be a stumbling block (especially since so many people have their brains turned off when reading fiction), nor should it lead people astray.

Here's the thing though: most 'magic' in fantasy novels bears little to no resemblance to real world magic. Anybody who tried waving a piece of wood and mumbling some unintelligleable words isnt practicing magic as Wiccans do. And they're not going to accomplish anything by it.

There are exceptions to this rule. A few fantasy novles do promote something dangerously close to real-world magic(Mists of Avalon is a good example of this). These works are probably best avoided. However they are also few and far between, and the vast majority of fantasy novels can be read in good concenious.

[Heartablaze]

For myself, I used to read fantasy novels all the time- LOTR, Chronicles of Narnia, Orson Scott Card's stuff, etc. but recently I have found it to not be good for me, not even the supposedly Christian stuff. It wasted my time and (as I have a great imagination) put many thoughts in my head that could have been replaced by other, more eternal matters. I'm good at memorizing things, so ask me something about those novels, I'll probably still know. But what does it matter? Another issue with that is that I substituted friends with said books for a long time; if it gets that way for you, you know it is bad. One time I was talking about a book, and my father thought I was talking about a friend because of the intensity of it...
Sorry for going off on a tangent. My main point is that for me, fantasy and most other novels are of no use to me, take up too much of my energy and time, and promote some slightly different things(or completely different things) than what I believe in, even in a "different world." I would suggest not reading them.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I think the role of fantasy is to help us in reality. I'm sure I'm not different from many young boys in that I grew up with a vivid imagination. In fact, I still have it! It's something I don't ever plan on using it. It makes me see the world as a place of wonder and adventure.

So what does fantasy do? Good fantasy inspires me to go out and make a difference. No. I can't be like Harry Potter and use magic, but I can work my own magic in the world by spreading the light of the gospel.

No. I can't be like Clark Kent and run at super-speed and bench press a truck, but I can do whatever I can to help someone else in need.

Now do we need to be careful? Yes. However, I think there is also a dangerous mindset in that we fear everything so much that we insulate ourselves from the world. I think of the parents for instance who want to make sure little Timmy sees nothing violent in his home. Once he gets outside, he's going to see it and he's going to have to deal with it. Teach him a proper response to it. (Of course, there are limits. I don't mean you allow him to watch blood and gore at a young age, but he should learn some of how the world really is.)

And also, let's not condemn our children because they do have imaginations. A boy walking through some woods finds a stick. Before too long, he has a sword in his hand and he's being the hero. Well let him pretend that. Teach him also the value of being heroic. Let him know that there is a real place for those desires.

In fact, as a fantasy buff, I happen to really enjoy the descriptions in Ephesians 6. I can definitely relate to what Paul is talking about. Paul is talking about reality though and as strange as it sounds, this warfare is going on all around us everyday. It's far more exciting than any fantasy, but without the aid of fantasy, I wonder if I would really appreciate it.