People claim to have the Holy Spirit, but do they?

[mickiel]

It is so easy to make claims on God, and state that he speaks to you, that you have seen him, and that you have his Holy Spirit. But you know, none of the three can be proven.

Nobody can prove that they have the Spirit of God, and nobody has the humility to admit as such.

People are more full of pride than of Gods Spirit.

If you look at the evidence of Gods Spirit in Galations, these fruits would make someone a fantastic individual.

And I have never met anyone with these 9 fruits pouring out of them.

But I can't count the people who claim it. And that is more of a heresey than hoping all to be saved.

Peace.

[Pilgrim]

It is so easy to make claims on God, and state that he speaks to you, that you have seen him, and that you have his Holy Spirit. But you know, none of the three can be proven.

Nobody can prove that they have the Spirit of God, and nobody has the humility to admit as such.

People are more full of pride than of Gods Spirit.

If you look at the evidence of Gods Spirit in Galations, these fruits would make someone a fantastic individual.

And I have never met anyone with these 9 fruits pouring out of them.

But I can't count the people who claim it. And that is more of a heresey than hoping all to be saved.

Peace.

You've made a lot of claims here on Tweb yourself. How's that mirror?

[mickiel]

If I were looking to prove a religion false, their lies on the Holy Spirit is where I would look. Imagine that, a whole religion, trained to induce themselves into believing that the great God has actually placed something inside of them, that according to scripture, can be very easily seen and cataloged. Those fruits cannot be mimicked.

And it is very easy to see when someone does not have those fruits.

Just look at the post here on the web, and you can see all kinds of dirt comming out of these people claimming to be saints.

Peace.

[Pilgrim]

I repeat: you've made a lot of claims yourself here on Tweb. How does that mirror look? In other words, maybe you should work on that log there.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Hi Mickiel, good to see you, hope you are well.

I think it is possible to quench the Spirit in oneself, so there can be times when a Spirit-filled person does not exhibit it as much as they should.

[mickiel]

I repeat: you've made a lot of claims yourself here on Tweb. How does that mirror look? In other words, maybe you should work on that log there.

Well there is work being done on me, but give me the honor to list what I need done, but let me first start by saying that I do not have Gods Holy Spirit, and thus I need all 9 of the fruits of his Spirit to be given to me. Those are the only biblical signs given, so that one can know if Gods Spirit has been given. And that is NOT what people are guageing it by, people are going by THEIR OWN CLAIM of having it, NOT the biblical evidence provided by Gods word.



To Darth Xena,

Greetings to you as well.

Well yes, it is very possible to quench the Spirit, but I disagree with how some interpit " Quench". It could mean extinguish or vanish, or to put out as in a fire, but I do not see that happening to something as powerful as Gods Spirit. I think the term Quench then was used to mean" Loose Zeal", to dwindle or to cool off, or to " Stifle." When it was written, " Quench not the Spirit", it meant don't slow it up, don't choke it, don't filter its power through things that strain it.

But those kinds of things are only pertinent or applys to the people who really have Gods Spirit, and are not " Acting " like they have it. We have far more self convinced Actors, than we do genuine Spirit filled people walking this earth.

If all the people who falsely claimed to have Gods Spirit were to turn blue over night, tommorrow we would see a sea of religious blue people cover this earth, and then one would know the power of the evil one. How utterly deceptive he really is, as he appears as an angel of light in the self proclaimed belief of the people.

Two things will be a great surprise in the Great White Throne Judgement; 1. How truly loving and forgiving and merciful God REALLY is. 2. How much we have been decevied, and didNOT know it.

Peace.

[mickiel]

I have always suspected, since I was a youth, that something was wrong with Christianity and its view of the bible. I used to think that something was wrong with the bible, then I found it was not the bible, it was the way people were interpiting it.

Theres something wrong with this world. Theres something wrong with religion. Theres something wrong with everything.

I have often thought , " What if people were wrong about the bible and their view of God." And I am not talking about just a few people being wrong, but everybody. What if Rev. 12:9 were really true? I mean really, really true, and that the whole world, including all religions, including christianity, were deceived.

What if no one really had GodsSpirit, and all who claim to just are deceived?

And thats when it hit me! Thats exactly what has occured. Thats exactly whats wrong with humanity, we do NOT have Gods Spirit, God is NOT present on earth, and we all have been deceived.

And you know what, the picture is becomming more clear everyday. Now the Bible is really making sense to me. Now I can begin to understand why Sin, and what reality is with God, and human destiny.

Peace.

[Thirsty]

Many people claim to have the Holy Spirit, as evidence of speaking in tongues. But this manifestation alone is not true evidence. True evidence is those who actually do heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons by laying on of hands. It happens quite often in third-world countries where they are not so inclined to doubt the Holy Spirit. There is plenty of eye-witness evidence of the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit working through the lives of saints... I myself have seen such miracles.

[Sparko]

So Mikiel, where is God then if his spirit is not on earth?

[mickiel]

So Mikiel, where is God then if his spirit is not on earth?

Well I am not saying his Spirit is not here, I just have my doubts as to it being inside of everyone who claims it. I really doubt that it is in even half of the churchs who claim to have it, muchless the people. Believing this, as I do, I am inclinded to look realistically at the scriptures as to just what is going on. I believe that people are very serious about their belief in God, and having his Holy Spirit. I believe they want and desire it, I believe that very much. But something isn't right, not to me as I view the bible and this world. The world, to me, is more barren of Gods Spirit, and I see nothing in scripture to dispute this. I don't see a period in scripture that Gods Spirit will multiply and swell on the earth before he returns to it. I have only seen that happening after he returns, from my personal studies.

I have seen scriptures state that knowledge of God will increase, but knowledge increase does not denote a presence of Gods Spirit inside of someone. I think increase in knowledge of God can be a sign that God is working, or could be working in a person, but that does not mean they will evolve from a calling, to a chosen, because many are called, but of those, few are chosen.

Which leads to a study of just what a " Firstfruit is." I think firstfruits are the first wave of humans who are given the Spirit of God, and they, whoever they are, or will be, are the actual church of God. Its not hidden fact that I believe that eventually God will call and choose everyone, but I do not know the times in which he will do so.

So I tend to believe that God has not yet chosen his church of this day, not to say he is not in the process of calling them now, he probally is. I don't know. But I think a human must be prepared by God to be an end time annointed Spirit indwelling human, I just believe that. And I think God is taking his time doing that. Its no telling what he is going to take his people through, even before he calls them, it may take years of preperation. But I believe they will show the full range of all the fruits of the Spirit, once he has finished with them.

I think these people will be from every race on earth, will be mostly female, and will be of mostly adult age. I think they will not be mostly American, I doubt that, I think they will be mostly third world people. I say this because God has constantly displayed a habit of calling people from the brackets that most think he wouldnot, really to put shame to the wise and " Honorable" people.

Anyhow, these are just personal speculations of mine, not meant to offend others.

Peace.

[Norrin Radd]

It is so easy to make claims on God, and state that he speaks to you, that you have seen him, and that you have his Holy Spirit. But you know, none of the three can be proven.

Nobody can prove that they have the Spirit of God, and nobody has the humility to admit as such.

People are more full of pride than of Gods Spirit.

If you look at the evidence of Gods Spirit in Galations, these fruits would make someone a fantastic individual.

Indeed. Just as the "works of the flesh" -- the results of trying to earn salvation -- make for a pretty bad-sounding individual.

It's clear from reading 1 Cor. that the Corinthian church had a lot of problems, and in general hardly seemed to be bearing a lot of the "fruit" of the Spirit. And yet in all his instructions and rebukes to them, Paul did not claim the "gifts" they showed came from anywhere but genuinely from the Spirit of God.

Maybe it's not quite so simple after all to label those who do and do not have the Spirit.

[mickiel]

Indeed. Just as the "works of the flesh" -- the results of trying to earn salvation -- make for a pretty bad-sounding individual.

It's clear from reading 1 Cor. that the Corinthian church had a lot of problems, and in general hardly seemed to be bearing a lot of the "fruit" of the Spirit. And yet in all his instructions and rebukes to them, Paul did not claim the "gifts" they showed came from anywhere but genuinely from the Spirit of God.

Maybe it's not quite so simple after all to label those who do and do not have the Spirit.

Well i'll say somethingelse about the Corinthians and all other churchs that God had, just because God has called out a church, does not mean he has given them his Holy Spirit. God has called out many to his church, but has chosen few to give his Holy Spirit to.

One of the causes of confusion, is teachers that think they have Gods Spirit, but do not, are assumed by the people to be led by God, and their teachings are readily accepted as comming from God. So modernday teachers, are just like the ancient false prophets, very powerful people who have very well watched influence, and are misleading many. The foundation they have laided is not of God, but it is about Christ. But just because a gospel is about Christ, does not mean it is sanctioned by Christ. Jesus said many people would come in his name, saying and admitting that he is Christ, give his correct identity, and yet deceive many.

Peace.

[DesertBerean]

And I have never met anyone with these 9 fruits pouring out of them.Peace.

Wow. You've had some major problems if you've NEVER met any Christian that didn't bear the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Did God not send the Holy Spirit onto the 120 people on the day of Pentecost? and did he not lead people such as Peter in judging people who had lied to the Spirit and consequently to God? Did not even Gentiles speak in tongues when the Spirit come upon them? Does he not work this way to this day, and perform miracles? I have seen such activity (miracles, I mean. I am not as old as Mossy).

Did not Christ say that the gates of hell would not prevail against the church? How then can you conclude that Christ has not set up the church as described in the NT?

Scripture does indeed speak of the quenching of the Spirit. That doesn't mean the Spirit is powerless - it means the Spirit allows the believer to choose whether to listen and obey, as shown by the warning in the passage in Ephesians that says to not grieve the Spirit, by which we are sealed unto the day of redemption. (emphasis mine). In fact, Ephesians is full of instructions on how the Christian is to conduct him/herself yet assumes that the target of those instructions are believers. It is the Spirit, not any work of our own making, that seals us.

It seems to me you are expecting perfection in each and every Christian. Am I wrong in my impression?

The first and foremost mission of every Christian is the Great Commission - to share the story of the Cross. Christ said the The Holy Spirit is here to empower us and to guide and remind us of what Christ did and said. Not to automatically make us perfect; otherwise there would not have been a problem with the widows almost from the start, Paul and Barnabas would not have had disagreement and Peter would not show hypocrisy in his dealings with the Jews at Antioch. Nor would the church have had disagreement over the Law of Moses that led to the Council of Jerusalem where men, not some magical mainfestation of the Spirit, debated and settled the issue.

[technomage]

It is so easy to make claims on God, and state that he speaks to you, that you have seen him, and that you have his Holy Spirit. But you know, none of the three can be proven.

Of course they cannot be proven. I guess that's why Rush's song "Show, Don't Tell" means so much to me.

[Thirsty]

It is so easy to make claims on God, and state that he speaks to you, that you have seen him, and that you have his Holy Spirit. But you know, none of the three can be proven.

Claims are one thing, eye-witness evidence of miracles is another. It is interesting that eye-witness accounts are held in high-esteem in judicial proceedings, yet not in regards to miracles. And I hear over and over, you can't prove it, you can't prove it, you may have seen it, but you can't prove it! Yet they'll believe whatever the news media says... It reminds me of John 12:37: "Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him." Can we prove Jesus had the Holy Spirit? I mean, come on, I've met many people who walk in the thick presence of the Holy Spirit through powerful prayer, miracles, and just the sheer convincing presence of God.