View Poll Results: What date of the Jewish Month of Nisan was this?

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Thread: On what Jewish date was that?

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    If Mark 14:12 was on the 14h of Nisan that would mean Jesus and his disciples eat the Passover in the evening of the 15th of Nisan (Mark 14:16-18). Thus making the day of His crucifixion on the 15th.
    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    What's confusing to Bible Scholars is that Jesus and the disciples held their seder at least one day before the Jewish leaders did. Possibly as early as Tuesday evening after sunset (Which would be Wednesday, 12 Nisan). Some groups, including the Essenes and those adhering to the Jubilee calendar, always celebrated the Passover feast Tuesday evening/Wednesday morning every year. It probably helped alleviate the crowds on the day of the Passover sacrifices.
    I'd rather go with Christ observing Nisan new moon one evening before Temple did or admitted to doing so.

    If He had been in Judea, he would have been obliged to observe beginning of Nisan when Temple admitted the new moon and signalled it by beacons. You know, high beacons of fire, visible a long way, you light one as soon as you see next one.

    But he arrived one week or so into Nisan to Bethany (Saturday) and Jerusalem (Sunday).

    That means that he had been in Galilee and passed through probably Samaria, where Samarians were obviously not lighting beacons signalled by the Jewish temple. So Christ went by His own sighting rather than the Jewish Temple.

    Since Hillel II, Jewish calendar has been so to speak fixed in advance, but back then when the Temple was standing, it was by agricultural and astronomic observation.

    First, agricultural late in Adar/First Adar, to decide whether next month is Nisan or Second Adar and Nisan only after that.

    Second, each new month begins with a sighted new moon.

    The sighting of New Moon can obviously imply a divergence of when a Holy Month begins, as is still seen some years about new moon of Ramadan.

  2. #22
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hansgeorg View Post
    I'd rather go with Christ observing Nisan new moon one evening before Temple did or admitted to doing so.

    If He had been in Judea, he would have been obliged to observe beginning of Nisan when Temple admitted the new moon and signalled it by beacons. You know, high beacons of fire, visible a long way, you light one as soon as you see next one.

    But he arrived one week or so into Nisan to Bethany (Saturday) and Jerusalem (Sunday).

    That means that he had been in Galilee and passed through probably Samaria, where Samarians were obviously not lighting beacons signalled by the Jewish temple. So Christ went by His own sighting rather than the Jewish Temple.

    Since Hillel II, Jewish calendar has been so to speak fixed in advance, but back then when the Temple was standing, it was by agricultural and astronomic observation.

    First, agricultural late in Adar/First Adar, to decide whether next month is Nisan or Second Adar and Nisan only after that.

    Second, each new month begins with a sighted new moon.

    The sighting of New Moon can obviously imply a divergence of when a Holy Month begins, as is still seen some years about new moon of Ramadan.
    A new moon in 30 AD fell on March 22. Making the next day the 1st of that Jewish month, so the 14th of Nisan fall on our Wedensday.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  3. #23
    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    A new moon in 30 AD fell on March 22. Making the next day the 1st of that Jewish month, so the 14th of Nisan fall on our Wedensday.
    But that was at 17:46 UT, about two hours after sunset in Jerusalem. By law, the new year or month wasn't declared until after two witnesses to the crescent moon stated their claim to the Sanhedrin. At sunset on Thursday, March 23, the crescent moon was 22 hours old, barely enough to be visible.

    It is not possible to see the crescent of the new moon with the naked eye less than 15 hours before or after the moon’s closest approach to the sun, or when the moon is less that 7.5º of arc from the Sun. This is known as the Danjon limit, names after the French astronomer André-Louis Danjon.

    But an abstract by Mohammad Ilyas entitled “The Danjon Limit of Lunar Visibility: A Re-examination,” states, “From a re-examination of Danjon’s data, it may be safely concluded that a more appropriate limiting elongation is closer to this value, i.e. ~10.5º.” That would make a minimum of about 20.6 hours after conjunction before the crescent moon could become visible to the naked eye of a trained observer intentionally searching for the crescent moon. Under ideal weather conditions and with well-trained eyes, that would be difficult.

    The crescent moon would definitely have been visible by sunset on Friday, March 24. That would support John's Gospel in equating 1 Nisan, hence also 15 Nisan, with the weekly Shabbat.
    Last edited by Faber; 11-26-2016 at 10:59 PM.

  4. #24
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    But that was at 17:46 UT, about two hours after sunset in Jerusalem. By law, the new year or month wasn't declared until after two witnesses to the crescent moon stated their claim to the Sanhedrin. At sunset on Thursday, March 23, the crescent moon was 22 hours old, barely enough to be visible.

    It is not possible to see the crescent of the new moon with the naked eye less than 15 hours before or after the moon’s closest approach to the sun, or when the moon is less that 7.5º of arc from the Sun. This is known as the Danjon limit, names after the French astronomer André-Louis Danjon.

    But an abstract by Mohammad Ilyas entitled “The Danjon Limit of Lunar Visibility: A Re-examination,” states, “From a re-examination of Danjon’s data, it may be safely concluded that a more appropriate limiting elongation is closer to this value, i.e. ~10.5º.” That would make a minimum of about 20.6 hours after conjunction before the crescent moon could become visible to the naked eye of a trained observer intentionally searching for the crescent moon. Under ideal weather conditions and with well-trained eyes, that would be difficult.

    The crescent moon would definitely have been visible by sunset on Friday, March 24. That would support John's Gospel in equating 1 Nisan, hence also 15 Nisan, with the weekly Shabbat.
    When in history is the 15th of Nisan reckoned on the 6th day of the week according to the Jewish calendar?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  5. #25
    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    When in history is the 15th of Nisan reckoned on the 6th day of the week according to the Jewish calendar?
    Unlikely any time between AD 28 and AD 33.

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