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Thread: A Conversion Story

  1. #21
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    The experience she claims comes nowhere near the experience of Saul on the Damascus road described in the Bible. You really overshot the runway on this.
    I appreciate that Jesus didn’t say anything very profound but surely the visitation must be a sign of Kirsten Powers’ importance and divine approval of her evangelizing journalism. Perhaps a by-line like “Approved by Jesus” would not go amiss.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  2. #22
    tWebber robrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    ... and burning bosoms ...
    Burning bosoms?
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

  3. #23
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    I appreciate that Jesus didn’t say anything very profound but surely the visitation must be a sign of Kirsten Powers’ importance and divine approval of her evangelizing journalism. Perhaps a by-line like “Approved by Jesus” would not go amiss.
    Wow.... you really haven't read the account of Saul's conversion for yourself, have you? And I suspect you really haven't read (with any appreciable comprehension) the story of Kirsten's conversion. Not even close. I'll be happy to cover the differences, if you're interested in anything more than childish and petty criticism.
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

  4. #24
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robrecht View Post
    Burning bosoms?
    Mrs. Doubtfire.
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

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    tWebber robrecht's Avatar
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    A nice story of someone coming to belief in something she had previously discounted and now found very fulfilling. I thought it was funny about how she feared that Christians would try to convert her to being Republican.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

  6. #26
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Wow.... you really haven't read the account of Saul's conversion for yourself, have you? And I suspect you really haven't read (with any appreciable comprehension) the story of Kirsten's conversion. Not even close. I'll be happy to cover the differences, if you're interested in anything more than childish and petty criticism.
    I have just been reading Acts 9. Even with the involvement of Ananias it is quite a simple story. Jesus says surprising little (Hello and go). I am definitely interested in what you have to say about it. I think Kirsten’s story is just as elaborate. And she is a writer, like Paul. I think there are strong parallels.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  7. #27
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    I have just been reading Acts 9. Even with the involvement of Ananias it is quite a simple story. Jesus says surprising little (Hello and go). I am definitely interested in what you have to say about it. I think Kirsten’s story is just as elaborate. And she is a writer, like Paul. I think there are strong parallels.
    "Hello and go"? That's what you got from the Acts 9 account? Or do you find it necessary to misrepresent scripture to support your claim?

    Source: Acts 9[4

    ]*He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”[5]*“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. [6]*“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

    © Copyright Original Source



    I have to believe you're just playing games, and pretending interest.

    Saul was blinded for three days - he had been a Christian killer very actively working against Christianity - it was a dramatic physical encounter, not a "dream" or a "vision".

    To compare that to Kirsten's account is just plain goofy.
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

  8. #28
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    "Hello and go"? That's what you got from the Acts 9 account? Or do you find it necessary to misrepresent scripture to support your claim?
    Source: Acts 9[4

    ]*He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”[5]*“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. [6]*“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

    © Copyright Original Source


    I have to believe you're just playing games, and pretending interest.
    Saul was blinded for three days - he had been a Christian killer very actively working against Christianity - it was a dramatic physical encounter, not a "dream" or a "vision".
    To compare that to Kirsten's account is just plain goofy.
    Paul was blinded and Kirsten was traumatized for several days at least. I think if you were to remove Paul’s story from its special place in the Bible and put him in a modern setting beside Kirsten you would be hard pushed to say which was the more authentic experience and consequently, whose wisdom we should pay more attention to.

    I know this discourse seems to you an outrageous wind up but I think it is interesting to reflect on how we deal with contemporary claims of this sort. (I think it is because we worship the book.)
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  9. #29
    tWebber
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    I don't even understand the argument. Every person who has a vision or experience of Jesus must append their experience to the Bible? Huh?

    There have been thousands, maybe millions, of people who have claimed to have seen or experienced Jesus after his resurrection, going all the way back to the first century, and their writings haven't been canonized. Having had an experience of Jesus, in of itself, doesn't seem to be the reason for canonization. If I'm remembering correctly, the reason for canonization usually had to do with things like Apostolic authority, closeness to the events of the 1st century, content, and occasion of the writing, etc.

  10. #30
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    I tried to write off the experience as misfiring synapses, but I couldn't shake it. When I returned to New York a few days later, I was lost. I suddenly felt God everywhere and it was terrifying. More important, it was unwelcome. It felt like an invasion. I started to fear I was going crazy.
    In the late summer and early Autumn of 1990 I had three of these experiences - powerful, terrifying and wonderful. At one point I thought this "presence" was going to kill me - I begged Him/it to stop. At that point I had no knowledge of the experience of a CS Lewis or others who went through this, so I too was questioning my sanity. I was 37 years old at the time, and like most human beings I had run the gambit of emotional experiences - good and bad. But this was nothing like any experience I had in the past, it was completely different. I don't believe that one could understand this encounter unless one experienced it themselves. It was wholly foreign to any past reference. So the skeptic would have to reduce this to a mere psychological event, that is understandable, but for the person who had this overwhelming "sense" that reduction just doesn't ring true.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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