Doubtin' John's Bumblin' and Stumblin' Through TIF Thread

[grosses_schwein]

Did John Loftus ever apologize for his lie? Or did he try to rationalize it or deny it? How long has this been going on? I am just curious.

Regards,
David Mooney

[jpholding]

Did John Loftus ever apologize for his lie? Or did he try to rationalize it or deny it? How long has this been going on? I am just curious.

David, if you'll go out to the hub page for tektonics.org threads here, you'll see one at the top titled "Doubting John: He Still Lies Today" which documents my original "catching" of his lie and then numerous pages of him attempting to rationalize it away. The links to the pages of course no longer work because he took some down and we also traded blogs. You'll see what I mean.

[jpholding]

However, JP's insistence that the necessity for self-publication stems from publishers primarily wanting to sell mass-market "junk", is also rather absurd.

Talking out of your rear end again, I see. You're missing a few things.

Most of the books, if not all, in the arsenal are by previously published authors and/or academic presses, which a) gives prior authors a leg up; b) effectively shuts out new authors by design. If you're already published by Zondervan, they will come to you again and again rather than risk a new author. And no one can break into an academic press on this level, sorry.

Do yourself and everyone else here a favor....don't argue this. You have yet to engage a topic you know anything about. Save time: go off in a huff now rather than later, because you're already losing. And you're also a monumental bore.

[jwarrend]

Talking out of your rear end again, I see.

Not exactly; I haven't tried to write or publish a book so I don't have specific familiarity with how that particular industry functions, but I do have quite a bit of familiarity with a different publication industry (board games) and while the specifics are likely different, it seems that there are some similar themes in how the industries operate.

Most of the books, if not all, in the arsenal are by previously published authors and/or academic presses, which a) gives prior authors a leg up; b) effectively shuts out new authors by design. If you're already published by Zondervan, they will come to you again and again rather than risk a new author.

Yes, this makes sense and is reasonable. You'd expect a book by Ravi to sell better than one by an unknown author, even if the books were equally good, and it makes sense that a publisher would show preference to the established author so that they will sell more books. And this has pretty much nothing to do with Left Behind-style mass market junk. Correct?

And no one can break into an academic press on this level, sorry.

Most of the publishers indicate that they will in theory consider manuscripts received through a submission service, and some (eg Eerdmans) do indicate that they accept unsolicited submissions. Do you have specific data indicating that these aren't really real, and that they don't in fact ever accept a manuscript from an unpublished author? I couldn't say whether they do or don't, just curious about whether it's really truly impossible and unheard of for a new author to get published by an Eerdmans or Kregel or Zondervan, or whether it's just atypical or very difficult.

-Jeff

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Welcome aboard David! Unbelievers who are wanting to dialogue are our guests of honor here! I look forward to it.

On the other hand, types like DJ who just want to justify themselves and aren't really looking for truth are our guests of shame.

[jpholding]

Not exactly; I haven't tried to write or publish a book so I don't have specific familiarity with how that particular industry functions

That's all you needed to say. End of argument. Don't speak on the subject again.

author to get published by an Eerdmans or Kregel or Zondervan, or whether it's just atypical or very difficult.

Put it this way: Unless you know someone in the business, the way it is now, forget it.

[jwarrend]

Put it this way: Unless you know someone in the business, the way it is now, forget it.

Fair enough; when answering the objection from skeptics "JP had to self-publish because no one would publish his lousy book", why not give the correct answer, "It is very, very difficult for an unpublished author to break into the business, because publishers show overwhelming preference to established authors" instead of blaming it on the glut of Left Behind-style mass-market pablum, which clearly has nothing to do with the issue? The bogus answer you've been peddling could give the impression that YOU are not as familiar with the industry as you claim.

-Jeff

[jpholding]

instead of blaming it on the glut of Left Behind-style mass-market pablum, which clearly has nothing to do with the issue?

Why in the heck do you think they do NOT have the resources to "take chances" with an "unproven author"?

Also, is Tim LaHaye a "proven author" or not?

Think, man, THINK! Put the pieces together!

[jpholding]

And one more thing --

QUIT DERAILING MY THREADS WITH YOUR DIVERSIONS!

[grosses_schwein]

Thanks Phoenix for the welcome. If all goes well James Holding and I will start a debate on October 10 or later. I will probably just lurk until then. Take care,

David Mooney

[jwarrend]

Why in the heck do you think they do NOT have the resources to "take chances" with an "unproven author"?

Well, it's certainly not for the reason you're intimating. For your logic to hold, it would have to be the case that, for example, it would be easier for an unpublished author (of whatever persuasion) to get published by a mass market publisher like Multnomah as opposed to by a "niche" publisher. Is it?

Also, is Tim LaHaye a "proven author" or not?

The word I used was "established", and yes, I would say Tim LaHaye is an established author.

QUIT DERAILING MY THREADS WITH YOUR DIVERSIONS!

Come now JP, don't you think people are sick of you beating the DJ dead horse for the 10,000th time? I suspect that learning some things about the Christian publishing industry would actually be a welcome diversion!

-J

[Meta Knight]

Come now JP, don't you think people are sick of you beating the DJ dead horse for the 10,000th time?

I'm sure not

I suspect that learning some things about the Christian publishing industry would actually be a welcome diversion!

-J

That may be, but not in this thread, as this thread isn't set aside for things about the Christian publishing industry

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Thanks Phoenix for the welcome. If all goes well James Holding and I will start a debate on October 10 or later. I will probably just lurk until then. Take care,

David Mooney

What will it be on? Until then, maybe you and I can have some interesting discussions soon. JPH and I deal in different areas after all.....

[grosses_schwein]

Hello Phoenix,

I hope all is well with you.

The debate or discussion will be on the subject of the "three days and three nights" issue found in Matthew 12:40 and how well it stacks up with a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection. However, I am not prepared to debate the topic at this time and I am saving my arguments for when James makes his arguments so it will be mainly between him and me. In the meantime I want to lurk for awhile and not get too busy here before the discussion between James and me. I appreciate your offer though. I hope you understand. I have so much more reading to do. Theology Web seems like it is really neat place to find interesting discussion.

Take care,
David Mooney

[Mr Minder]

Then we all assuredly encourage you to go on with your studying. Good luck!