Prayer, "The Best Optical Illusion In The World!"

[Minnesota]

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[familyof6]

Well,




























DUH!

[gharfish]

Jesus doesn't care.

[lilpixieofterror]

The old assumption of :

"God is a soda machine in the sky! Jesus said what you pray for should appear before you. Have you done that and does what you pray for appear in front of you? If not God does not exist and nothing you can say will change my mind nanananananna! "

Now I know how stupid you can be, come back when you have a video of somebody who can read books beyond, "Cat in the Hat."

:pixie:

[John Powell]

The old assumption of :

"God is a soda machine in the sky! Jesus said what you pray for should appear before you. Have you done that and does what you pray for appear in front of you? If not God does not exist and nothing you can say will change my mind nanananananna! "

Now I know how stupid you can be, come back when you have a video of somebody who can read books beyond, "Cat in the Hat."

:pixie:

POWELL:
If God were to answer prayers as the Biblical writers suggested he would and how he was narrated to have done then God would seem rather like a sky sugar Daddy. The problem is that prayers aren't answered like that except in the (fictional) Bible. So, theists who refuse to give up on the belief in a prayer-answering God make apologies for the problem and argue things like "God answers prayers with either yes, no, or wait." If that's the criterion then a jug of milk could be as successful at answering prayers as God. It would be different if you could record God telling you how he'll answer your specific prayer, but God is as silent as the milk jug.

At least you can record the milk jug sitting on the counter because it's real.

John Powell

[xtreem5150ahm]

how many times did the video say, "you are a smart person"?
Methinks someone is creating an illusion.

Where, in the Bible, is that "yes, no and wait" answers revealed? Are these human rationalizations or are they Biblical?

The video mentioned one point that IS Biblical, but dismissed it AS rationalization.... that of "God cannot be tested".

I haven't done much study of the Bible reguarding prayer, but i do recall one Biblical "experiment" that is appropriate..... are there any non-Christians that would like to point out the Book/chapter/verses, and discuss?

[Mountain Man]

POWELL:
If God were to answer prayers as the Biblical writers suggested he would...

And how did the Biblical writers suggest that God would answer prayer? More to the point, what verse or verses in the Bible make you think that we should expect God to be at our beck and call, giving us our every whim like a "sugar sky daddy"?

[Minnesota]

And how did the Biblical writers suggest that God would answer prayer?

Might want to start with these. ( a list I quickly lifted from another web site, and do not take any responsibility for. I just thought it was neat that someone already went to the trouble to find scripture that justifies the notion that god will answer your prayers. )

Jer 1:12............I am ready to perform My Word.

Jn 16:24..........Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

Mt 21:22..........whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.

Jer 33:3..........Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things...

Jn 14:14..........If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

Jn 16:23..........whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.

Jas 5:16..........The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Job 22:27........You will make your prayer to Him, He will hear you...

1Jn 5:14..........Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

1Jn 5:15..........And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

Jn 14:13..........And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Isa 55:11.........So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Jn 15:7............If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

Mt 18:18..........Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mt 18:19..........Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.

Jn 15:16..........You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Jer 29:12..........Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.

Isa 65:24..........It shall come to pass that before they call, I will answer, and while they are speaking I will hear.

Ps 91:15..........He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him.

Ps 141:2..........Let my prayer be set before You as incense, the lifting of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

More to the point, what verse or verses in the Bible make you think that we should expect God to be at our beck and call, giving us our every whim like a "sugar sky daddy"?

If you read CAREFULLY, you will see that JP didn't say you "should expect." Please note the qualifying words that form his statement.

"If God were to answer prayers as the Biblical writers suggested he would and how he was narrated to have done then God would seem rather like a sky sugar Daddy."

You can't simply ignore words because the conflict with your bias.

[Zeluvia]

how many times did the video say, "you are a smart person"?
Methinks someone is creating an illusion.

Where, in the Bible, is that "yes, no and wait" answers revealed? Are these human rationalizations or are they Biblical?

The video mentioned one point that IS Biblical, but dismissed it AS rationalization.... that of "God cannot be tested".

I haven't done much study of the Bible reguarding prayer, but i do recall one Biblical "experiment" that is appropriate..... are there any non-Christians that would like to point out the Book/chapter/verses, and discuss?

No, but I would like to point out THIS creation of illusion....

Jim Mason :

Here you guys go again, getting bogged down on your personal preferences, argueing, and missing the point. How about what's best for your kids? My 4 year old daughter asked me about God the other day and I told her that God is a very nice man who lives in the sky and helps people if they pray really hard. Of course now she prays 5 times a day and tells me that God wants me to buy her a princess costume, take her to the park, make Easter happen next week, and make ice cream come out of the vcr. But hey, it's a good start.

From:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...out_god/commen


Now here we have a child being taught to pray. Any CHRISTIANS see anything wrong with this picture?


.

[JonLanceBarker]

that video...was more than a little bit silly.

observation can verify, for example, that the jug of milk did not move itself to the IRS and tell them to send you a check.

you cannot make the same observation regarding God.

the comparison falls flat.

case closed.

[Mountain Man]

Yeah, I expected as much. If you look carefully, Minny, you'll notice that several of those verses refute the notion that we should expect God to unconditionally answer our every prayer. I took a moment to highlight some of the key phrases for you:

Might want to start with these. ( a list I quickly lifted from another web site, and do not take any responsibility for. I just thought it was neat that someone already went to the trouble to find scripture that justifies the notion that god will answer your prayers. )

Jer 1:12............I am ready to perform My Word.

Jn 16:24..........Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

Mt 21:22..........whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.

Jer 33:3..........Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things...

Jn 14:14..........If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

Jn 16:23..........whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.

Jas 5:16..........The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Job 22:27........You will make your prayer to Him, He will hear you...

1Jn 5:14..........Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

1Jn 5:15..........And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

Jn 14:13..........And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Isa 55:11.........So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Jn 15:7............If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

Mt 18:18..........Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mt 18:19..........Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.

Jn 15:16..........You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Jer 29:12..........Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.

Isa 65:24..........It shall come to pass that before they call, I will answer, and while they are speaking I will hear.

Ps 91:15..........He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him.

Ps 141:2..........Let my prayer be set before You as incense, the lifting of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

Now tell me, what do you suppose the phrase "in my name" means? What are the qualities you'd find in "a righteous man" and what sort of prayer do you think he would pray? What did Jesus mean when said "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you"? How about "according to his will"?

These are important questions that when answered correctly will give you a much better understanding of our prayer relationship with God than you have now. And next time, try and put a little more effort into a response than uncritically lifting a list of decontexualized verses you found on some web page or other.

[MrManNo1]

Strange, I don't recall most people becoming Christians on the basis of answered prayer.

[Zeluvia]

Strange, I don't recall most people becoming Christians on the basis of answered prayer.

Then why teach children to pray? Why teach bad theology to a five year old?

[Mountain Man]

Then why teach children to pray? Why teach bad theology to a five year old?

Teach them to pray, yes. Teach them bad theology, no.

[Sheepdog]

Jer 1:12............I am ready to perform My Word.

unbelievable! you skeptics quote the Bible worse than Calvinists do.

11 Later the LORD asked me, "What do you see, Jeremiah?" I answered, "I see a branch of an almond tree." 12 Then the LORD said, "You have observed correctly. This means I am watching to make sure my threats are carried out."
13 The LORD again asked me, "What do you see?" I answered, "I see a pot of boiling water; it is tipped toward us from the north." 14 Then the LORD said, "This means destruction will break out from the north on all who live in the land. 15 For I will soon summon all the peoples of the kingdoms of the north," says the LORD. "They will come and their kings will set up their thrones near the entrances of the gates of Jerusalem. They will attack all the walls surrounding it, and all the towns in Judah. Jeremiah 1:11-15

This is a passages promising judgment to Israel. It has nothing to do with answering prayers.

I won't bother dealing with the other passages you quote, as this is sufficient to show how utterly dishonest you are in addressing scripture. If you and other skeptics can't be bothered to do serious study before your spout off, then you don't deserve any more of a response than biting contempt.


if anyone else has experiences with Minn's shot credibility, please post it here:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...34#post2086134