Imitating Christ and attaining perfection

[Zguy28]

This is in response to Arsenio's comment in the theosis thread.

But it is the monasteries that are the refineries of holiness from the gross ore that enters them... They are the crucibles that melt away the dross, and leave only the gold of humility and love...

We do not walk with the banal self-assurance that even though we are still sinning that even so, our sins are "covered" by Christ's atoning sacrifice so we can just keep on as we are... Our lives are in a constant and ever-ongoing STATE of repentance, first from the gross sins of our sinful lives prior to Orthodoxy, and then of the smaller gross sins of deeds, then of words themselves, and then of the thoughts that lead to the words that lead to the deeds, and there are many of all of these... And if we want perfection, we know that we must join with the rich young man, and sell all that we have and give to the poor, thus acquiring riches in heaven, and then deny ourselves, and follow the self-sacrificial Life of Christ, and this is normally best done in a monastery, apart from the distractions of the world...

Did our Lord Jesus Christ live a monastic lifestyle?

What about the Apostles and disciples (Stephen, Timothy, Silas etc.) who are our examples? Did they live in a monastery?

Is our faith about us? How are you loving your neighbor by being a monk?

Paul said:

1 Cor 10:24

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others

This may seem harsh, but I believe it is going against the Missio Dei.

Jesus said:

Luke 19:10

For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.

&

Mark 8:34b

"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Or perhaps, lets look at Peter (whom the Lord said the church was built upon) and John:

Acts 8:25

When they had testified and proclaimed the word of the Lord, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages.

George, do you want to run the race marked out for you? Either get out there and lead men to Christ or equip others to do it.

Peace and Grace to you,,

Z

[Whipartist]

Firstly, prayer is not preparation for the work of God. Prayer is the work of God. Monks are not uninvolved in the world. They uphold the kingdom of God through their prayers. It's not a retreat, but an assault that most who are busy like Martha, have not learned and the kingdom of God suffers for it.

Jesus was quite monastic. He would often be by Himself in prayer. But monasticism is not a universal calling. And George is not a monk.... But the interiorization of monasticism is a universal calling. We are all to take up our crosses and follow Jesus, as you well point out. That's what monasticism is about. George is both actively leading men to Christ and equipping others to do so.

[Rdr. Arsenios]

Did our Lord Jesus Christ live a monastic lifestyle?

Did he pray and fast?

What about the Apostles and disciples (Stephen, Timothy, Silas etc.) who are our examples? Did they live in a monastery?

They were persecuted in the world - The lives of the members of the early Church were monastic in the world... It is true that the disciples did not fast while Christ was with them, but after his departure, they instituted fasting as a part of the Life of Christ in His Body, the Church...

Yet what do we find Paul DOING in the wee morning hours after having been arrested and beaten??? We find him, in those hours, not asleep in the prison, but praying and rejoicing... These are monastic practices... Monastics withdraw from the world in order to attain apostolic lives... A monastery is not a retreat, but an assault, upon the bastions of evil in the world...

Is our faith about us? How are you loving your neighbor by being a monk?

I am not a monk... A monk is in a RADICAL state and praxis of self denial, under the directorship and in obedience to a spiritual father who has gone where the monk is learning to go... Just as Christ and the Holy Spirit taught the Disciples, so one's spiritual father and the Holy Spirit teach the monk the path of perfection... For such as these have truly sold all that they have, including their opinions and conclusions and ALL their worldly riches, to attain the Kingdom of God...

Paul said:

1 Cor 10:24

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others

The good of others IS our own good, and can only be attained in the Love of God... iow, you cannot GIVE what you do not HAVE... So the monastic aspirant must first ACQUIRE the Holy Spirit by repentance, that he can then GIVE it by grace...

This may seem harsh, but I believe it is going against the Missio Dei.

Then you are still clanging about in your head with opinions... Repentance is the prerequisite of knowledge here, in the matter of monastic attainment...

Jesus said:

Luke 19:10

For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.

&

Mark 8:34b

"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

So that IF you understand monasticism as RADICAL and willing self denial, where even your opinions are left at the door, where you forsake ALL for the Kingdom of God, then AFTER you have attained it, you can THEN come to the world with gifts that matter, and not just a bunch of opinions about Scripture...

Or perhaps, lets look at Peter (whom the Lord said the church was built upon) and John:

Acts 8:25

When they had testified and proclaimed the word of the Lord, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages.

And what IS the Word of God? REPENT and be BAPTIZED, for the KINGDOM of GOD is WHERE??? It is AT HAND! [And the violent are taking it by force... "Not yet have you resisted sin unto blood [your own]..." A monk resists sin unto blood, and forces himself in self denial, in weariness, in cold, in hardships, in persecutions, all voluntarily under the directorship and in obedience to a Spiritual Father [as Paul was a Spiritual Father] who has walked the talk of repentance from HIS Spiritual Father, just as the Apostles who were discipled by Christ in turn discipled others IN Christ... THAT is the REAL meaning of Apostolic Succession, btw... The handing down of the Faith...

George, do you want to run the race marked out for you? Either get out there and lead men to Christ or equip others to do it.

The running of the race is in the arena of spiritual combat, Z... It is those who overcome who are made pillars of the Church, which is the ground and pillar of Truth... It has nothing to do with leading the charge of OTHERS, but has everything to do with SELF DENIAL and the attainment of the kingdom of God in one's SELF... For the Kingdom of God is within, for those baptized into Christ, who have put on Christ... Yet by sins we keep ourselves from it, and by repentance, by self-denial, we enter it, in the praxis of the Life of the Body of Christ, the Church...

[quote]Peace and Grace to you,[quote]

And to you...

Arsenios