HUMOR! 666: Number of the Beast

[TyRockwell]

Are not the Two Witnesses Scripture and Tradition, which now lie dead in the streets, and over which the world celebrates their death? But in the Minor Chastisement, they will come back to life again!

Scripture and tradition? It couldn't be scripture, because the word of God is everliving, alive and powerful. Not one jot or tittle of the word will ever pass away.

Tradition? I think tradition is dangerous. It can replace following the leading of the Holy Spirit. Besides, aren't there wrong traditions?

I think the two witnesses are not allegorical, or symbolic, but actual persons. Allegory and symbolism can't call down fire from heaven, shut up the sky from raining, or strike the earth with plagues if anyone tries to harm them.

Peace and Truth.

Ty

[maudman]

Are not the Two Witnesses Scripture and Tradition, which now lie dead in the streets, and over which the world celebrates their death? But in the Minor Chastisement, they will come back to life again!

Hello Brother Spauline

No they are not! The scripture is remarkable precise on the two witnesses, and if I post the truth all here will wail in torment and mental anguish and many bouwles will burst.

The horror that is about to unfold before this world and the deception that is taking place is unlike in human history! Satan was cast out of heaven! Which will lead to a time of complete and utter darkness and to even mention the name of Christ will surely bring retribution. When CHrist said; """ when you will be hated for all nation for my name sake then the end will come!!!!"""" He means just that, and it will come in ONE HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!! WOe to those who are with CHild(pregnant with the seed of ANTI-Christ) and those that give suck in those days(Nuturing the seed of those ANTI-CHRIST). It is a dual truism both the literal and allegorical in these verses. And Catholics are Going to suffer right along with everybody else!!!!!! EXCEPT?????????

I'm not saying I believe I know who they are! I KNOW who they are!

MDN

[TyRockwell]

Get a grip, MDN, Satan was cast down to the earth, shortly after Jesus' resurrection, the Rev. 12:7-9 allusion you made, but he had lost his place in heaven because he has no authority. Jesus has all , I repeat, all authority, in heaven and on earth, and he told us, "THEREFORE (because of his authority), Go in my name." He delegated his authority to us. Peter said, "resist the devil and he will flee from you."
Right after Satan was cast down, the next verse, a voice in heaven said, "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Anointed one... They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testamony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink {in fear} in the face of death." AMP Jesus had told his disciples, "Behold, I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me." Kingdom means "the Kings Dominion" Satan has been trying to kill off the church since he was cast down 1980 years ago, and its been tough for some, horrible for some, but most of us haven't been killed off in the long tribulation. We're doing just fine, thank you, overcoming. You give the spirit of antichrist too much fear to work with, and it could get horrible for you, too. "But the just will live because of their faith."

[spauline]

Scripture and tradition? It couldn't be scripture, because the word of God is everliving, alive and powerful. Not one jot or tittle of the word will ever pass away.

Tradition? I think tradition is dangerous. It can replace following the leading of the Holy Spirit. Besides, aren't there wrong traditions?

I think the two witnesses are not allegorical, or symbolic, but actual persons. Allegory and symbolism can't call down fire from heaven, shut up the sky from raining, or strike the earth with plagues if anyone tries to harm them.

Peace and Truth.

Ty

we need to be figurative. Ontologically, the Scriptures and Trad can't be killed. But they can be REGARED as dead by the majority of humans, that is, no longer binding. And this is the modern man. Of course, the Word of God can never be destroyed, for it is Living and Breathing, and imparts to us mortals the truth. But a time can come and has come, in which humanity, precisely because of their fallen nature and apostasy ("the beast from the abyss"), can consider the Living Word of GOd to be dead and irrelevant to their existence. And that is today.

But the breath of life shall come into them again when the **** hits the fan, when the Minor Chastisement commences. For then, humanity will not have the distractions it has, that is, Aerosmith, and pizza, and beer, and the superbowl. No, when humanity begins to reap the consequences of its apostasy, then they will RECONSIDER the voice of the Catholic Scripture and Tradition, they shall have "great fear" when the Glorious Witnesses stand upon their feet. And when it is through, the world will repent, and the Catholic Dogmas and Teachings that come from the very Scripture and Sacred Apostolic Tradition, shall be vindicated, and all the persons in the various SPIRITUAL foreign lands shall come home to ROME, just as the prophets were vindicated in the Exile and all the Jews were gathered from the literal foreign lands into the bosom of the literal Promised Land of Old.

And then there shall be peace, and the Witnesses will be assumed into heaven, just as the mystics prophesy that in the age of peace that follows the Minor Chas, the Catholic Church shall convene the greatest Ecumenical Council in her history, and many difficult Scripture verses will be dogmatically interpreted. The doctirnal development shall become complete, and humanity will taste of the fullest fruits of Christ's Redemption, such that when they apostatize the second time, they shall have no excuse. And it is only then, in the second darknees, that Antichrist shall come.

ps, if any man shall harm the witness of Scripture and Tradition, in this manner is he to be harmed spiritually. The inabilty to accept a teaching of Catholicism, or set of teachings, creates a partial impediment to that persons salvation, for it places a partial barrier between that person and God, even if they are not fully culpable. If I don't know that a glass is poison and I drink it, I have not committed the sin of suicide. But I will still be harmed by it. In a similar vein, the heretic who is not culpable for his error has not sinned, and yet his error still decreases his chances of attaining salvation.

[TyRockwell]

Some parts of the Revelation are figurative, some are literal. it takes actual revealed knowledge by God's Holy Spirit to discern and understand the truth. Traditions, no matter how old, are many of the false doctrines and deceptions that Jesus and the Apostles warned us about.

The "apostacy" Paul wrote about was Israel's general rejection of Jesus as Messiah. The Long Tribulation began in the days of the apostles, as Jesus told the twelve, who came to Him privately, saying, "Then they will hand you (the disciples) over to persecution." The apostacy of natural Israel, in rejecting Christ left them subject to no protection, "he that restrains will continue to do so, until he is taken out of the way." The restrainer was Michael the Archangel, "the great prince who protects your people." See Dan 12:1-2, which came to pass when the "time of wrath in fullfilment of all that has been written," Luke 22:21 as Rome destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. John the Baptist told the Jews it would be in their lifetimes, "You brood of vipers, who told you to flee from the coming wrath," and, "the ax is already laid to the root of the tree."

Jesus spoke also of the end in our future, saying, "this good news of the king's dominion shall be proclaimed with demonstration in all the world, then the end will come." Until then he waits for God to "make his enemies a footstool for his feet." The Rev. 11 two witnesses are the time of the last being saved. "The first will be last, and the last will be first." The two witnesses demonstrate, with miracles, signs and wonders, to the people of Jerusalem, who will not believe unless they see miracles, that Jesus is Lord, the good news that the two witnesses, and Christians world wide have been telling.

Christians, who believe the Word of God will not be harmed, even if they drink deadly poison, Mark 16. The church are the people who will believe Jesus' words, and never see death, as he said. The church is not the holders of dead tradition, but of power, love and the mind of Christ.

Peace and Truth,

Ty

[spauline]

Some parts of the Revelation are figurative, some are literal. it takes actual revealed knowledge by God's Holy Spirit to discern and understand the truth. Traditions, no matter how old, are many of the false doctrines and deceptions that Jesus and the Apostles warned us about.

The "apostacy" Paul wrote about was Israel's general rejection of Jesus as Messiah. The Long Tribulation began in the days of the apostles, as Jesus told the twelve, who came to Him privately, saying, "Then they will hand you (the disciples) over to persecution." The apostacy of natural Israel, in rejecting Christ left them subject to no protection, "he that restrains will continue to do so, until he is taken out of the way." The restrainer was Michael the Archangel, "the great prince who protects your people." See Dan 12:1-2, which came to pass when the "time of wrath in fullfilment of all that has been written," Luke 22:21 as Rome destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. John the Baptist told the Jews it would be in their lifetimes, "You brood of vipers, who told you to flee from the coming wrath," and, "the ax is already laid to the root of the tree."

Jesus spoke also of the end in our future, saying, "this good news of the king's dominion shall be proclaimed with demonstration in all the world, then the end will come." Until then he waits for God to "make his enemies a footstool for his feet." The Rev. 11 two witnesses are the time of the last being saved. "The first will be last, and the last will be first." The two witnesses demonstrate, with miracles, signs and wonders, to the people of Jerusalem, who will not believe unless they see miracles, that Jesus is Lord, the good news that the two witnesses, and Christians world wide have been telling.

Christians, who believe the Word of God will not be harmed, even if they drink deadly poison, Mark 16. The church are the people who will believe Jesus' words, and never see death, as he said. The church is not the holders of dead tradition, but of power, love and the mind of Christ.

Peace and Truth,

Ty

applying the apocalypse to AD 70 can be legit as ONE layer of meaning. But that is certainly not the only layer of meaning, much less the primary.

The Tradition of the Catholic Church is not dead or evil as you say, but is the Sacred Oral Word of God, which alone gives the completely true interp of the WRITTEN Word of God.

At a Baptist college, there were two deans. One believed you could lose your salvation, the other didn't. They can't both be right. This is obviously one of the essential questions of faith. I could probably amass at least 10 primary ways that Protestants answer this question and its implications. Obviously, those who interpret it wrongly are in a situation that at a bare minimum wounds their relationship with God and diminishes their chances of being saved.

Hence, I reiterate: even though a heretic may be innocen of his ignorance and/or error, his deficiencies in matters of doctrine are dangerous, and they partiallly limit his chances of being saved.

The Holy Spirit gives graces to all who seek His Truth, including Protestants. But the collection of heretics who only trust Scripture by that intrinsic fact can never fully understand all of God's Truth, seeing as they have not the Oral Tradition, mediated through the Pope and Bishops, that gives the completely true interp of the Bible. Yes, the Holy Spirit sends graces to those Protestants who seek him, and with it they can find SOME truth, even alot. But the voice of God in actual grace is, under normal circumstances, IMPLICIT, rather than EXPLICITLY. The Holy Spirit only speaks EXPLICITLY through the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Otherwise, as for example in the case of innocent heretics, the voice is but IMPLICIT, and can therefore be misinterpreted by the subjective experience, psyche, and intellect of the heretic, such that explicit errors can pollute it. If the pollution is not the fault of the heretic, then God will not condemn the heretic for his errors, but, like I said, his error is a minor poison that could possibly cause him to lose out in the end.

The less we understand about a person, the less we can love them. The less means we have to help us love the person, the less we are able to love them. Therefore, the less you know about God's truth and understand it, the less you are able to love him and serve him. And the less grace you have available to help you love him, the less you are able to love Him.

Catholics alone have everything available to them that God wills for all humanity: They have the Pope, the Bishops, the Scrirptures, and Reason. And they have all Seven Sacraments. Protestants have only the Scriptures, and many times do not even live according to reason, and they can at best have only Baptism and Marriage. They can never have Confession, Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Orders, or the Anointing of the Sick while they remain heretics. Therefore, Protestants do not have as much potential to understand and know God and love him, seeing as they have less truth, some errors, and less grace to work with.

Hence, I reiterate: the Two Witnesses are Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Ye Protestants are not the beast from the abyss by any stretch, but you are a major category of attack that harms the Sacred Tradition, and by of implication, some of Scripture.

[TyRockwell]

applying the apocalypse to AD 70 can be legit as ONE layer of meaning. But that is certainly not the only layer of meaning, much less the primary.

The Tradition of the Catholic Church is not dead or evil as you say, but is the Sacred Oral Word of God, which alone gives the completely true interp of the WRITTEN Word of God.

At a Baptist college, there were two deans. One believed you could lose your salvation, the other didn't. They can't both be right. This is obviously one of the essential questions of faith. I could probably amass at least 10 primary ways that Protestants answer this question and its implications. Obviously, those who interpret it wrongly are in a situation that at a bare minimum wounds their relationship with God and diminishes their chances of being saved.

Hence, I reiterate: even though a heretic may be innocen of his ignorance and/or error, his deficiencies in matters of doctrine are dangerous, and they partiallly limit his chances of being saved.

The Holy Spirit gives graces to all who seek His Truth, including Protestants. But the collection of heretics who only trust Scripture by that intrinsic fact can never fully understand all of God's Truth, seeing as they have not the Oral Tradition, mediated through the Pope and Bishops, that gives the completely true interp of the Bible. Yes, the Holy Spirit sends graces to those Protestants who seek him, and with it they can find SOME truth, even alot. But the voice of God in actual grace is, under normal circumstances, IMPLICIT, rather than EXPLICITLY. The Holy Spirit only speaks EXPLICITLY through the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Otherwise, as for example in the case of innocent heretics, the voice is but IMPLICIT, and can therefore be misinterpreted by the subjective experience, psyche, and intellect of the heretic, such that explicit errors can pollute it. If the pollution is not the fault of the heretic, then God will not condemn the heretic for his errors, but, like I said, his error is a minor poison that could possibly cause him to lose out in the end.

The less we understand about a person, the less we can love them. The less means we have to help us love the person, the less we are able to love them. Therefore, the less you know about God's truth and understand it, the less you are able to love him and serve him. And the less grace you have available to help you love him, the less you are able to love Him.

Catholics alone have everything available to them that God wills for all humanity: They have the Pope, the Bishops, the Scrirptures, and Reason. And they have all Seven Sacraments. Protestants have only the Scriptures, and many times do not even live according to reason, and they can at best have only Baptism and Marriage. They can never have Confession, Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Orders, or the Anointing of the Sick while they remain heretics. Therefore, Protestants do not have as much potential to understand and know God and love him, seeing as they have less truth, some errors, and less grace to work with.

Hence, I reiterate: the Two Witnesses are Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Ye Protestants are not the beast from the abyss by any stretch, but you are a major category of attack that harms the Sacred Tradition, and by of implication, some of Scripture.

I have heard that you people do what you have just done. I had hoped it was not true. Paul said, "Did the scripture originate with you?" I pose that same question to you. The answer is, 'no', of course. The control and exclusivity you espouse are not found in scripture. I am sure to post scriptural references for the things I write. Your long-winded response had not one tiny bit of Bible in it, nor any justification for the positions you hold.

Just to have had a tradition for a long, long time does not make it right, and no one made you God. Please do not assume you are the only ones having the ability to receive instruction or revealed knowledge from the Holy Spirit. "All your children will be taught of the Lord." Isaiah 54, that includes me. I don't have to have your permission to be saved, participate in communion, nor tell the good news of Jesus Christ. "It is for freedom that you have been made free."

This whole hierarchy you people have set up is UNBIBLICAL. The body of believers has had converts before and after your traditions were pontificated. It is sad that you are so blinded by ritual and tradition that you can't see that others know the life, the joy and the love that you claim you alone know. Paul said, "You have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear, but of power, and love and a sound mind." I am a bondservant to Jesus, and a Spirit born new creation in Christ. I did not have to apply to the Catholic church to receive the Spirit of life, the Spirit of wisdom, of knowledge and the Spirit of Truth. And no matter how high an order you perceive yourself to be, you can't take away what you didn't give.

I know I am saved. "For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved." I know, on the authority of scripture, that because I believe that "Jesus is Lord, and God has raised him from the dead, then I am saved." Romans 10:9-10

I have the Holy Spirit. More than that, the Holy Spirit has me. The writings of the New Testament were addressed to regular people, not to an ecclessiastic board of directors. All the people were encouraged to hear and to read the gospels and the epistles. This was 300 to 350 years before your denomination was organized, and then, just as now, you want people to believe they have to go through you to be right with God, hear from God, or be able to follow God. This is clearly contrary to scripture.

I am secure in my relationship to God through Jesus, and it is confirmed by him to me, not only by the Word of God, but by the reality of what he does, and has done in my life. His power is manifest in me. He answers my prayers. I love Him, and He loves me.

Please understand. I am not against you, but I am your brother, in Christ, whether you approve of my credentials or not. You need to be sure that you have a trust, reliance and loyalty to Jesus and his word, so that you can be saved, too, and be my brother, in Christ. This is not only Implicitly, but Explicitly True. The Oral Tradition is not Holy Word of God. The two witnesses are two real people, probably not Catholics, that call down fire, shut up the sky, and send plagues upon anyone wanting to harm them. Allegory can only do that allegorically, not in reality.

[maudman]

Get a grip, MDN, Satan was cast down to the earth, shortly after Jesus' resurrection, the Rev. 12:7-9 allusion you made, but he had lost his place in heaven because he has no authority. Jesus has all , I repeat, all authority, in heaven and on earth, and he told us, "THEREFORE (because of his authority), Go in my name." He delegated his authority to us. Peter said, "resist the devil and he will flee from you."
Right after Satan was cast down, the next verse, a voice in heaven said, "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Anointed one... They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testamony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink {in fear} in the face of death." AMP Jesus had told his disciples, "Behold, I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me." Kingdom means "the Kings Dominion" Satan has been trying to kill off the church since he was cast down 1980 years ago, and its been tough for some, horrible for some, but most of us haven't been killed off in the long tribulation. We're doing just fine, thank you, overcoming. You give the spirit of antichrist too much fear to work with, and it could get horrible for you, too. "But the just will live because of their faith."

Calm Down? If the Good man would have known what hour the thief comes wouldn't suffered his house to be broken.

Satan was going to transform himself into an Angel Of light. That is why Christ said take take heed that you be not decieved " many will come in My name(christ) and decieve the many. Many coming in his name and deicieving. The entire point of watching and knowing what was happening.

The two witness are going to expose he that is anti Christ and those apostate Christians whoo are decieving and when that happens and the way it will happen you will surly be wondering.

MDN

[maudman]

The two witnesses won't even be seen as Christian and if you understood the scripture you wouldn't be indulging yourselves in vain imaginations.

[TyRockwell]

Calm Down? If the Good man would have known what hour the thief comes wouldn't suffered his house to be broken.

Satan was going to transform himself into an Angel Of light. That is why Christ said take take heed that you be not decieved " many will come in My name(christ) and decieve the many. Many coming in his name and deicieving. The entire point of watching and knowing what was happening.

The two witness are going to expose he that is anti Christ and those apostate Christians whoo are decieving and when that happens and the way it will happen you will surly be wondering.

MDN

There you go again! You spout apostacy in interpretations others see without considering the truths I posted. Deceptions are not a new thing. They were being introduced in the times of the New Testament. Paul said that we are not in darkness so that we will not be aware of the times and season of Jesus' return.

Apostacy is not what you decide it is. It is not having a difference with any large exclusivist branch of the body of Christ. Apostacy has to do with what fleshly Israel did in denying the Messiah. Christians are by definition people who accept the Messiah, Jesus, and willingly follow his Lordship. Apostacy is not failing to follow men in liturgical, hierarchical, pontifical, self will in thinking of themselves more highly than they ought.

It is not apostacy to lay hands on the sick, anoint, heal, preach the good news of salvation and the good news of the kingdom outside of the dominating control of the so-called Mother Church. The healings, miracles, and changed lives are evidence in themselves of the affirmation of God. Are we to seek men's approval, or God's?

The church as a whole, all believers, will be far closer to attaining the "unity of the faith" Eph. 4:13, when certain large organized groups stop trying to exclude others, calling them, 'heretics,' when they belive in the same deity of Christ, and the authority of Scripture and the power and teaching work of the Holy Spirit, seen in the lives and ministries of millions, not necessarily having a relationship with the pope. We have a relationship with Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit that you absolutely refuse to acknowledge, in the face of all evidence that we do!

Peace and Truth
Ty

[TyRockwell]

The two witnesses won't even be seen as Christian and if you understood the scripture you wouldn't be indulging yourselves in vain imaginations.

I understand the scriptures. Right standing with God is a free gift to all and upon all who believe. Many, many, many Christians will recognize the two witnesses as brothers in the Lord, and will be adding to their faith through prayers and spiritual warfare, pulling down demonic strongholds, through the power of agreement and the unity of the faith. Then the church will be mature.

I repeat, what I've told you before from Peter's own pen, by the Spirit of the Lord. I am not Catholic, Peter was not a Catholic, yet I am a king and a priest, as are all who put their trust in Jesus.

You understand only what you are told you have to accept in order to remain in good standing with your peers. If you don't accept other believers who are not of your fold, then you do not love God, who loves us, who are born of his love into the Truth, Who is Jesus.

Peace and Truth,
Ty

[maudman]

There you go again! You spout apostacy in interpretations others see without considering the truths I posted. Deceptions are not a new thing. They were being introduced in the times of the New Testament. Paul said that we are not in darkness so that we will not be aware of the times and season of Jesus' return.

Apostacy is not what you decide it is. It is not having a difference with any large exclusivist branch of the body of Christ. Apostacy has to do with what fleshly Israel did in denying the Messiah. Christians are by definition people who accept the Messiah, Jesus, and willingly follow his Lordship. Apostacy is not failing to follow men in liturgical, hierarchical, pontifical, self will in thinking of themselves more highly than they ought.

It is not apostacy to lay hands on the sick, anoint, heal, preach the good news of salvation and the good news of the kingdom outside of the dominating control of the so-called Mother Church. The healings, miracles, and changed lives are evidence in themselves of the affirmation of God. Are we to seek men's approval, or God's?

The church as a whole, all believers, will be far closer to attaining the "unity of the faith" Eph. 4:13, when certain large organized groups stop trying to exclude others, calling them, 'heretics,' when they belive in the same deity of Christ, and the authority of Scripture and the power and teaching work of the Holy Spirit, seen in the lives and ministries of millions, not necessarily having a relationship with the pope. We have a relationship with Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit that you absolutely refuse to acknowledge, in the face of all evidence that we do!

Peace and Truth
Ty

TY

Apostacy

He exhorts them to stand to the faith first delivered to them and to beware of heretics.

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James: to them that are beloved in God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called. 2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and charity be fulfilled. 3 Dearly beloved, taking all care to write unto you concerning your common salvation, I was under a necessity to write unto you: to beseech you to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men, turning the grace of our Lord God into riotousness, and denying the only sovereign Ruler, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore admonish you, though ye once knew all things, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, did afterwards destroy them that believed not:

6 And the angels who kept not their principality, but forsook their own habitation, he hath reserved under darkness in everlasting chains, unto the judgment of the great day. 7 As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire. 8 In like manner these men also defile the flesh, and despise dominion, and blaspheme majesty. 9 When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee. 10 But these men blaspheme whatever things they know not: and what things soever they naturally know, like dumb beasts, in these they are corrupted.

6 "Principality"... That is, the state in which they were first created, their original dignity.

8 "Blaspheme majesty"... Speak evil of them that are in dignity; and even utter blasphemies against the divine majesty.

9 "Contended about the body"... This contention, which is no where else mentioned in holy writ, was originally known by revelation, and transmitted by tradition. It is thought the occasion of it was, that the devil would have had the body buried in such a place and manner, as to be worshipped by the Jews with divine honours.

9 "Command thee"... or rebuke thee.

11 Woe unto them, for they have gone in the way of Cain: and after the error of Balaam they have for reward poured out themselves, and have perished in the contradiction of Core. 12 These are spots in their banquets, feasting together without fear, feeding themselves, clouds without water, which are carried about by winds, trees of the autumn, unfruitful, twice dead, plucked up by the roots, 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own confusion; wandering stars, to whom the storm of darkness is reserved for ever. 14 Now of these Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying: Behold, the Lord cometh with thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to reprove all the ungodly for all the works of their ungodliness, whereby they have done ungodly, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against God.

11 "Gone in the way"... Heretics follow the way of Cain, by murdering the souls of their brethren; the way of Balaam, by putting a scandal before the people of God, for their own private ends; and the way of Core or Korah, by their opposition to the church governors of divine appointment.

14 "Prophesied"... This prophecy was either known by tradition, or from some book that is since lost.

16 These are murmurers, full of complaints, walking according to their own desires, and their mouth speaketh proud things, admiring persons for gain's sake. 17 But you, my dearly beloved, be mindful of the words which have been spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 Who told you, that in the last time there should come mockers, walking according to their own desires in ungodlinesses. 19 These are they, who separate themselves, sensual men, having not the Spirit. 20 But you, my beloved, building yourselves upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

17 "But you, my dearly beloved, be mindful"... He now exhorts the faithful to remain steadfast in the belief and practice of what they had heard from the apostles, who had also foretold that in aftertimes (lit. in the last time) there should be false teachers, scoffing and ridiculing all revealed truths, abandoning themselves to their passions and lusts; who separate themselves from the Catholic communion by heresies and schisms. Sensual men, carried away and enslaved by the pleasures of the senses.

20 "Building yourselves upon your most holy faith"... Raising by your actions, a spiritual building, founded, 1 st, upon faith; 2 d, on the love of God; 3 d, upon hope, whilst you are waiting for the mercies of God, and the reward of eternal life; 4 th, joined with the great duty of prayer.

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, unto life everlasting. 22 And some indeed reprove, being judged: 23 But others save, pulling them out of the fire. And on others have mercy, in fear, hating also the spotted garment which is carnal. 24 Now to him who is able to preserve you without sin, and to present you spotless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, 25 To the only God our Saviour through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory and magnificence, empire and power, before all ages, and now, and for all ages of ages. Amen.

22 "Reprove, being judged"... He gives them another instruction to practice charity in endeavouring to convert their neighbour, where they will meet with three sorts of persons: 1 st, With persons obstinate in their errors and sins; these may be said to be already judged and condemned; they are to be sharply reprehended, reproved, and if possible convinced of their error. 2 d, As to others you must endeavour to save them, by pulling them, as it were, out of the fire, from the ruin they stand in great danger of. 3 d, You must have mercy on others in fear, when you see them through ignorance of frailty, in danger of being drawn into the snares of these heretics; with these you must deal more gently and mildly, with a charitable compassion, hating always, and teaching others to hate the carnal garment which is spotted, their sensual and corrupt manners, that defile both the soul and body.

24 "Now to him"... St. Jude concludes his epistle with this doxology of praising God, and praying to the only God our Saviour, which may either signify God the Father, or God as equally agreeing to all the three persons, who are equally the cause of Christ's incarnation, and man's salvation, through Jesus Christ our Lord, who, being God from eternity, took upon him our human nature, that he might become our Redeemer.


Peace and GodBless
MDN

[TyRockwell]

MDM, Like I said, I follow the faith once and for all delivered to the saints, which the RCC has no copyright on, and which was delivered to the saints long before Constatine opened the Bottomless Pit and released all those formerly bound doctrines of Judaism combined with civil government, adopting a Pharisee-ic, Judaic Chief priestly teaching of legalism, and the equally evil Oral Traditions. It has become evident that the heretics are those that think the faith was delivered to the RCC.

Peace and Truth

Ty

[maudman]

MDM, Like I said, I follow the faith once and for all delivered to the saints, which the RCC has no copyright on, and which was delivered to the saints long before Constatine opened the Bottomless Pit and released all those formerly bound doctrines of Judaism combined with civil government, adopting a Pharisee-ic, Judaic Chief priestly teaching of legalism, and the equally evil Oral Traditions. It has become evident that the heretics are those that think the faith was delivered to the RCC.

Peace and Truth

Ty

Oh TY How I love this Post. Thy Spirit is now unvailed for all to see and now thy Nakedness shows.

You see """Spauline"""" how when the spirit pushed the things that Spew Forth. How some can say things to find favor, but underneath they have another agenda. Nice swelling words, but they cast a snare. Tares sown in the spirit that causes many to stumble. See how cleaver it began? oh I don't hate Catholics, I'm not like that and then I hate Just about everything you stand for. You see """"spauline"""" from the previous post that I pulled from the DR Bible and its Commentaries. The Catholic Bible cuts. Some are condemned before and some can be pulled out of the fire of the heresies. But I will Leave Ty and Out lets see if he takes it? Your out Ty is if you really don't mean those things and your just rubbing me.

SPAULINE

Do you KNow what one of the Greatest mistakes that Protestants make when studing Prophecy is Spauline?

Its this; That the Beast of Danial and the Beast of Revelation with the seven Heads and the ten Horns Is the Beast of GOD of the civilized world and when it is ressurected in its seventh and final form it is when it goes into perditions. Why? Because it is built not by the Lord but on the spirit of rebellion. The little horn builds it and do you know what the little horn is? Remmeber, I told you that the Beast is dualistic Seven heads are seven spirits and the ten Horns are the ten Commandments.

Now let me demonstrate something here that you can see?

Now Look at ty's statment concerning """Constantine"" And we know that the ten horns are also ten kings that shall rise out of the Beast and Constantine is the first and LOok what he DID!

He Did the first of the Ten Commandments. He said to the Roman Empire. Christianity is the religion of Rome and you will have no other God before Their God. NOw you can understand the ten kings that rise from the Beast of God. That is the perspective and the Understanding that has the wisdom. From Danial 7 when the Fourth beast rises and the Saints take the Kingdom. And then the Little horn of Daniel will go and uproot three of those ten Horns and cause the beast to go into perdition. Now remeber the dualism of the horns because it is also true about the little horn.

But there is more! oh so much more. You know this might get interesting.

And for all you Protestants out there Understand. If your spirit is right with RCC? The things I say well help you, as you seek to understand the mysteries of our Faith.

MDN

[spauline]

I have heard that you people do what you have just done. I had hoped it was not true. Paul said, "Did the scripture originate with you?" I pose that same question to you. The answer is, 'no', of course. The control and exclusivity you espouse are not found in scripture. I am sure to post scriptural references for the things I write. Your long-winded response had not one tiny bit of Bible in it, nor any justification for the positions you hold.

Just to have had a tradition for a long, long time does not make it right, and no one made you God. Please do not assume you are the only ones having the ability to receive instruction or revealed knowledge from the Holy Spirit. "All your children will be taught of the Lord." Isaiah 54, that includes me. I don't have to have your permission to be saved, participate in communion, nor tell the good news of Jesus Christ. "It is for freedom that you have been made free."

This whole hierarchy you people have set up is UNBIBLICAL. The body of believers has had converts before and after your traditions were pontificated. It is sad that you are so blinded by ritual and tradition that you can't see that others know the life, the joy and the love that you claim you alone know. Paul said, "You have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear, but of power, and love and a sound mind." I am a bondservant to Jesus, and a Spirit born new creation in Christ. I did not have to apply to the Catholic church to receive the Spirit of life, the Spirit of wisdom, of knowledge and the Spirit of Truth. And no matter how high an order you perceive yourself to be, you can't take away what you didn't give.

I know I am saved. "For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved." I know, on the authority of scripture, that because I believe that "Jesus is Lord, and God has raised him from the dead, then I am saved." Romans 10:9-10

I have the Holy Spirit. More than that, the Holy Spirit has me. The writings of the New Testament were addressed to regular people, not to an ecclessiastic board of directors. All the people were encouraged to hear and to read the gospels and the epistles. This was 300 to 350 years before your denomination was organized, and then, just as now, you want people to believe they have to go through you to be right with God, hear from God, or be able to follow God. This is clearly contrary to scripture.

I am secure in my relationship to God through Jesus, and it is confirmed by him to me, not only by the Word of God, but by the reality of what he does, and has done in my life. His power is manifest in me. He answers my prayers. I love Him, and He loves me.

Please understand. I am not against you, but I am your brother, in Christ, whether you approve of my credentials or not. You need to be sure that you have a trust, reliance and loyalty to Jesus and his word, so that you can be saved, too, and be my brother, in Christ. This is not only Implicitly, but Explicitly True. The Oral Tradition is not Holy Word of God. The two witnesses are two real people, probably not Catholics, that call down fire, shut up the sky, and send plagues upon anyone wanting to harm them. Allegory can only do that allegorically, not in reality.

Dear Ty,

whoa, hold on, man. I am NOT saying that Protestants (at least the sincere ones) are NOT The children of God, that the grace of the Holy Spirit does NOT dwell in them. It is highly probable that you now possess the state of grace, Ty, that the sanctifying love and beauty and life of God dwells in you, making you spiritually alive, a friend of God. AMEN.

And also understand this: I am NOT saying that simply because Catholicism as a religion offers to humanity the fullness of all that Christ desires for the world to have, that is, in terms of grace and truth, that therefore, "all Catholics are holier than all Protestants." BY NO MEANS! For simply because some truth and grace is AVAILABLE to Catholics, does not mean that all of them are necessarily aware of it, or for that matter even care, much less seek such things out.

Please read the following article of mine that elaborates: Protestants can be Holier than Catholics.

Therefore, I forsee that there shall be many Protestants (that is, who were on earth) in Heaven who will judge myriads of Catholics into hell, because the Catholics had the fullness and didn't care, but the Protestants who didn't know any better, did so many holy works of God with the what they had, namely, Scripture and Baptism and Marriage.

What I'm talking about, Ty, is DEGREES of truth and grace. God gives grace extra-sacramentally, yes, and this is why even though Protestants do not have a valid Eucharist, and therefore do not receive the Body and Blood of Our Lord literally in their communion services, nevertheless, their sincer love of God and meditation on His Suffering can be the vehicle in which God can increase the presence of the habitual grace in their souls, that is, extra-sacramentally.

But the greater graces are in the Sacraments. Yes, Protestants have ALOT of truth, and as the CCC subsequently points out, God can use the Scriptures and the Sacraments of Baptism and Marriage to sanctify those in these ecclesial communities and help them attain salvation. Therefore, the CCC affirms that the innocent members of these communities truly deserve to be called Christians.

But there is Sacred Tradition that gives the proper interpretation of Scripture. Protestants can still get some things right in their interpretation of Scripture, moved by the Spirit. It's just that, and usually through no fault of their own, they do not know of Sacred Tradition, or else have misconceptions or other obstacles beyond their fault, that hinder their ability to accept this.

Nor do I wish to stand high and mighty and look down on you. I just saw a slide of Protestant martyrs in Uganda. I am awed and humbled at the great courage these men showed by enduring tortures unspeakable unto death to bear witness to their Savior. I ask myself, in shame, seeing as I am such a wimp, am I prepared to die that way? In many stages of the Rosary, I implore the Virgin and Her Son to give me the grace to endure what death the Savior has ordained for me. Lord, save me from euthanasia, from failure to embrace martyrdom. For I have been given much, yes ,a gift, but the "price" is high for me. For to whom much is given, much is expected. Therefore, I will burn in hell far more if I fail to remain faithful to Christ, than would a Protestant, all of whom have been given less truth and grace.

I pray for all of our Salvation.