Questions on Judaism

[JohnMartin]

Hello my Jewish friends at Tweb.

I have recently been listening to a Jewish apologist, Tovia Singer. I have placed these comments/questions on his discussion forum here in response to his video entitled Did God Destroy the Second Temple Because Jews Rejected Jesus?

[Marta]

Also if the Jews cannot keep the Torah, why is the Mosaic covenant not broken? What would it take for modern Judaism to teach the Mosaic covenant is broken? If the Mosaic covenant cannot be broken after the temple, or because of the loss of some part of the Mosaic covenant, why then was the Mosaic covenant broken in the OT and not ever after the loss of the temple in 70AD?

Read Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch book,"Horeb: A Philosophy of Jewish Laws and Observances 7th Edition". The comments and questions that you're posing are not exactly (politically) correct. This is a really good book to read:

"It has often been said that Orthodox Judaism has always existed since the Jews received the Torah on Mt. Sinai and that Conservative Judaism was a reaction to Reform Judaism, however, that is not entirely accurate. In fact, modern Orthodoxy did not exist until the reforms and innovations of Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch." http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...hy/Hirsch.html

Rejecting Reform


"The actual term "Orthodox" is derived from Christian theology and was, at first, a term of reproach hurled against the traditionalists by the early Reformers at the beginning of the nineteenth century, to imply that those who failed to respond to the modernist challenge were hidebound. Eventually, however, the term was used by the traditionalists themselves as a convenient shorthand for the attitude of complete loyalty to the Jewish past, although some traditionalists prefer the term "Torah-true" to describe their religious position. In any event, Orthodoxy came to mean for Jews faithfulness to the practices of Judaism, to the halakhah (Jewish law) in its traditional formulation" http://www.myjewishlearning.com/arti...hodox-judaism/

[JohnMartin]

Thanks for the answer. Would you like to answer any of the other questions on Judaism? Maybe you can present a short discussion on one or so Jewish theologians. I am interested in Rabbinic commentaries on the OT.

JM

[Marta]

Thanks for the answer. Would you like to answer any of the other questions on Judaism? Maybe you can present a short discussion on one or so Jewish theologians. I am interested in Rabbinic commentaries on the OT.

JM

Hi JM,

Some of the questions that you had listed were commented in the book that I read. I thought that the book opened my eyes to the differences between the two groups in Judaism. The part that surprised me the most was the fact that "not" only did the reform movement change the way others looked at the law but I felt weakened it. Giving an example would have been "equally" the fact that as a Christian we adhere to our practices and beliefs. If we deviate or fall away from God's grace and disassociate from others in our community then we become distance and out of touch. How could a Christian remain or maintain their belief by practicing outside of the faith - and telling others to do the same? If I don't believe the authenticity of the bible and I felt that not everything Jesus or the apostles said is faith bound - then this would be what I believe to be the truth. However, if I tell others to do the same then where does that put me?

Another thing - the Pauline theology on what Christians should follow and not follow in the law. (Kashrut (also kashruth or kashrus, כַּשְׁרוּת) is the set of Jewish religious dietary laws. For example: If I as a Christian (and I don't follow dietary laws but using this as only an example which some Christians have) follow the Jewish dietary laws but the reform movement is telling others what is to be followed and not - and they are not in line with the Orthodox meaning of it but again, and again, there are Christians who do follow it strictly, what does this tell us? Also, there are Christian, and perhaps came from Jewish descent, who are returning (yet) their belief in Christ hinders there total commitment - where does it stand when the reform movement follows or advocates (almost) the same theology.

To me - it's can be very confusing. Especially when we call it Modern Day Judaism?

[HebrewIsraeli]

You keep saying that we cannot keep to the covenant. Why do you say this? Why would Hashem give us a system we could not follow? In fact David rejoices in Psalms 117 about the glories of the Torah. You also seem to blow up the importance of the Temple. Even Solomon understood what the Temple was. It was a place for G-d to be present to show the nations of the world that G-d was with us. Praying towards the Temple became a replacement for sacrifices a long time ago It was even stated during Solomon's corrination of the Temple.

As for the priestly order, that's what the rabbis are. There are two kind of observation of the Torah the time of Exile and the time of return. Take a look at Daniel for that example. The Temple is not around currently so we live according to the time of the exiles.

I also want to address your question as to the timing of the destruction of the Temple. Well this was profesied in Isaiah and Ezekiel. And the timing. Jesus was crucified according to most Christian Bible scholars around 35 CE the Temple was destroyed 70 CE So you have 35 years in between it's not like Jesus died and then boom the Temple was destroyed. There is a whole history as to the lead up to the destruction of the Temple. It is even recorded in the Talmud that the religious leaders of the time were very corrupt Jesus himself refers to this corruption. He wasn't the only messianic speaker back then and they all spoke out against the priests taking bribes from Rome and even alloud the Romans to put pagan gods in the Temple.

[37818]

You keep saying that we cannot keep to the covenant. Why do you say this? Why would Hashem give us a system we could not follow? In fact David rejoices in Psalms 117 about the glories of the Torah. You also seem to blow up the importance of the Temple. Even Solomon understood what the Temple was. It was a place for G-d to be present to show the nations of the world that G-d was with us. Praying towards the Temple became a replacement for sacrifices a long time ago It was even stated during Solomon's corrination of the Temple.

". . . The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people - for ye were the fewest of all peoples - but because the LORD loved you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore unto your fathers, . . ." -- Deuteronomy 7:7-8.

As for the priestly order, that's what the rabbis are. There are two kind of observation of the Torah the time of Exile and the time of return. Take a look at Daniel for that example. The Temple is not around currently so we live according to the time of the exiles.

". . . Cursed be he that confirmeth not the words of this law to do them. . . ." -- Deuteronomy 27:26.
". . . Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; forasmuch as they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, saith the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people; and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the LORD'; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more." -- Jeremiah 31:31-34.
". . . Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to forgive iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal vision and prophet, and to anoint the most holy place. . . . And after the threescore and two weeks shall an anointed one be cut off, and be no more; and the people of a prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; . . ." -- Daniel 9:24, . . 26.

I also want to address your question as to the timing of the destruction of the Temple. Well this was profesied in Isaiah and Ezekiel. And the timing. Jesus was crucified according to most Christian Bible scholars around 35 CE the Temple was destroyed 70 CE So you have 35 years in between it's not like Jesus died and then boom the Temple was destroyed. There is a whole history as to the lead up to the destruction of the Temple. It is even recorded in the Talmud that the religious leaders of the time were very corrupt Jesus himself refers to this corruption. He wasn't the only messianic speaker back then and they all spoke out against the priests taking bribes from Rome and even alloud the Romans to put pagan gods in the Temple.

The two dates given are typically 30CE and 33CE. 30CE makes it 40 years to 70CE.

[Marta]

Hello my Jewish friends at Tweb.

I have recently been listening to a Jewish apologist, Tovia Singer. I have placed these comments/questions on his discussion forum here in response to his video entitled Did God Destroy the Second Temple Because Jews Rejected Jesus?

John Martin - the one thing God didn't take away from the Jews is the law - Torah. The best way to describe what you're asking is it a system of only "ceremonial laws" - and that may not be necessarily true, is it? If the whole was based on the sacrificial offerings, and they have long gone passed, then what is left?
Not what man, thinks of God is of primary importance, but what God thinks of man and wants him to do,' was a favourite saying of Hirsch. The Jew will never find the directive for his actions in idle philosophical speculation, but in the study of the Torah and its laws (cf.S.R.Hirsch,, Commentary on Exod.xxxiii, 21; Commentary on Ps. ciii, 3 ;Gesammelte
Schriften, Vol.Ill, p.451).

We have a passage written by the Apostle Paul - 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

[Marta]

Matthew Henry Commentary
2:25-29 No forms, ordinances, or notions can profit, without regenerating grace, which will always lead to seeking an interest in the righteousness of God by faith. For he is no more a Christian now, than he was really a Jew of old, who is only one outwardly: neither is that baptism, which is outward in the flesh: but he is the real Christian, who is inwardly a true believer, with an obedient faith. And the true baptism is that of the heart, by the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Ghost; bringing a spiritual frame of mind, and a willing following of truth in its holy ways. Let us pray that we may be made real Christians, not outwardly, but inwardly; in the heart and spirit, not in the letter; baptized, not with water only, but with the Holy Ghost; and let our praise be, not of men, but of God.


If the emphasizes were of baptism - how then can we look toward the sacrificial offerings. What has to be in place is what Matthew Henry's is stating, "Let us pray that we may be made real Christians, not outwardly, but inwardly; in the heart and spirit, not in the letterMark 12:33
and to love Him with all your heart and with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself, which is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

[Marta]

". . . The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people - for ye were the fewest of all peoples - but because the LORD loved you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore unto your fathers, . . ." -- Deuteronomy 7:7-8.



". . . Cursed be he that confirmeth not the words of this law to do them. . . ." -- Deuteronomy 27:26.
". . . Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; forasmuch as they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, saith the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people; and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the LORD'; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more." -- Jeremiah 31:31-34.
". . . Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to forgive iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal vision and prophet, and to anoint the most holy place. . . . And after the threescore and two weeks shall an anointed one be cut off, and be no more; and the people of a prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; . . ." -- Daniel 9:24, . . 26.



The two dates given are typically 30CE and 33CE. 30CE makes it 40 years to 70CE.

2 sections in the Torah/Old Testament - actually more but I'll give you a couple of passages on this.

Nehemiah 9 - New International Version (NIV)
The Israelites Confess Their Sins Daniel 9 - New International Version (NIV)
Romans 11: The Remnant of Israel30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 3132 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.