Does Islam and Christianity Have Anything In Common?

[Narnian]

Do Islam and Christianity Have Anything In Common?

Some people claim that by finding things in common between Islam and Christianity, peace will be achieved in the world. Let's begin this discussion by analysing this statement and looking underneath the rhetoric to find if there really ARE things in common with Christianity.

This thread is open to everyone. Please list those things that Christianity and Islam have in common.

Some rules:

1. No personal insults - tweb member's character flaws are not the subject of this thread
2. No "name" matches, ie "Jesus is in Islam as well", or "Allah" is "God" etc. We need to look at doctrines, character and deeds.
3. No logical fallacies allowed - read this first: http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...hew/logic.html
4. Have fun

[Narnian]

This is a reply to Tanakh Keeper:

Sure, lots of stuff. You both place great importance on getting converts.

You're thinking of the Jehovahs Witnesses. Mainstream christianity does not place "great" importance on getting converts.

You both have jealous gods that can't abide people worshipping differently.

In the NT God is Agape, this description does not match well with the childishness of "jealousy". The Allah of Islam and the God of Christianity are different in charcacter.

You both label people that leave your religions as lost or heretics.

Christians don't kill apostates. We pray for them.

You both have killed millions in the name of your religion.

already addressed that one in the other thread

You both had violent splits within your own religion.

We are looking at doctrinal similarities. Nowhere in Christianity does it tell you to have a violent split within it.

You both have your own holy books.

Is that all you can come up with?

You both claim that you are inheritors of the covenant that G-d made with the Jews.

THere is no teaching in Islam that mulims are inheritors. They are "slaves".

You both single out the Jews for "special" treatment.

That's a difference, not a similarity.

[Mountain Man]

Beyond the purely superficial, the two religions couldn't be more different. Their fundamental beliefs about the nature of their respective God (trinity vs. singular person) introduces vast differences at the foundational level.

For example, it makes sense for the Christian to say that God is love because love is a relational quality, and God could not be love without a relationship existing between the three persons of the trinity. In other words, for God to posses the property of love, it is necessary that his being consist of more than a single person. To say that Allah is "love" (i.e. loves himself) is to simply say that he's a narcissist.

[barnasha]

Beyond the purely superficial, the two religions couldn't be more different. Their fundamental beliefs about the nature of their respective God (trinity vs. singular person) introduces vast differences at the foundational level.

For example, it makes sense for the Christian to say that God is love because love is a relational quality, and God could not be love without a relationship existing between the three persons of the trinity. In other words, for God to posses the property of love, it is necessary that his being consist of more than a single person. To say that Allah is "love" (i.e. loves himself) is to simply say that he's a narcissist.

Abraham didn't define God as a "character", or "person", and neither did Jesus or Paul teach such a thing.

Besides, what about non-trinitarian Christianity? Or Christianity before Nicea?

[Tanakh Keeper]

We are looking at doctrinal similarities.

What's this "we" stuff? I'm thinking about behavioral similarities. All the deaths and persecutions in the name of your two gods. It can't be excused by saying the perps weren't "real" Christians. Barnasha makes plenty of posts, saying the same things about Muslims. I see no difference at all, merely a matter of timing.

[Mountain Man]

Abraham didn't define God as a "character", or "person", and neither did Jesus or Paul teach such a thing.

Besides, what about non-trinitarian Christianity? Or Christianity before Nicea?

Jesus unequivocally claimed he was God ("I and the Father are one." John 10:30) but he related with God as a separate person. The first few verses of the Gospel of John explicitly describe Jesus as being "God and with God", a statement that can only make sense if we accept that God's being is composed of more than one person. In John 14:16, Jesus called the Holy Spirit "the comforter" and referred to him as "another", distinct from both himself and his Father. Trinitarianism is implicit in the Bible.

Non-trinitarian Christians hold a heretical belief. The Council of Nicea didn't invent the trinity, it simply affirmed it.

[barnasha]

Jesus unequivocally claimed he was God ("I and the Father are one." John 10:30) but he related with God as a separate person.

If he "claimed he was God" as you say, wouldn't the verse say "I am your Father"?

Why does the so-called "person" talk appear in your words but not his?

Non-trinitarian Christians hold a heretical belief.

Trinitarian Christians could be considered as holding a heretical belief too. "Heresy" is relative to a certain norm.

The Council of Nicea didn't invent the trinity, it simply affirmed it.

It affirmed ONE kind of trinity, out of many others. Theophilus' trinity included God as one part!

[Ratnat]

Do Islam and Christianity Have Anything In Common?

Some people claim that by finding things in common between Islam and Christianity, peace will be achieved in the world. Let's begin this discussion by analysing this statement and looking underneath the rhetoric to find if there really ARE things in common with Christianity.

This thread is open to everyone. Please list those things that Christianity and Islam have in common.

Some rules:

1. No personal insults - tweb member's character flaws are not the subject of this thread
2. No "name" matches, ie "Jesus is in Islam as well", or "Allah" is "God" etc. We need to look at doctrines, character and deeds.
3. No logical fallacies allowed - read this first: http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...hew/logic.html
4. Have fun

Both are dependent on Hebrew/Jewish history and mythology.

Both have a belief in a final battle between good and evil.

Both are willing to kill in the name of deity.

Both believe in angels.

Both are attractive to the uneducated and poor in society. They keep the masses focused on the afterlife rather than worldly issues.

Both are authoritative in governing.

Both are offshoots of other religions and could not stand alone as unique revelations. Where Christianity was an offshoot of Judaism in response to the Roman Empire, Islam was an offshoot of Christianity as a response to the Holy Roman(Christian) Empire.

The more educated of both religions traditionally have always gotten along fine. Educated-not necessarily meaning Madhabs or Bible College "education".

[Narnian]

All the deaths and persecutions in the name of your two gods.

Show me where Jesus teaches jihad ... or any sort of death or persecution. We are not looking at "what people did" but the doctrines. Otherwise you could go on forever .... muslims eat steak and so do christians .... muslims go on holidays and so do christians ..... muslims put go to the doctor when sick and so do christians

Communist-atheists have killed more people than any other "creed" .... if you want to go down that path.

[Narnian]

Both are dependent on Hebrew/Jewish history and mythology.

this is a superficial similarity. If you scratch the surface, you will find that the history/mythology is also different. The actual doctrines of christianity and islam are vastly different.

Both have a belief in a final battle between good and evil.

that is pretty much integral to all religions. Zoroastrianism stands out.

Both are willing to kill in the name of deity.

I just addressed that one in the previous post.

Both believe in angels.

So do Zoroastrians and Hindus.

Both are attractive to the uneducated and poor in society. They keep the masses focused on the afterlife rather than worldly issues.

That could be any religion or creed.

Both are authoritative in governing.

That's a difference, not a similarity.

Both are offshoots of other religions and could not stand alone as unique revelations. Where Christianity was an offshoot of Judaism in response to the Roman Empire, Islam was an offshoot of Christianity as a response to the Holy Roman(Christian) Empire.

All religions are "offshoots". Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism. This is not unique to chrisitianity and islam.

The more educated of both religions traditionally have always gotten along fine. Educated-not necessarily meaning Madhabs or Bible College "education".

Islamic terrorists are highly educated, wealthy and westernised. It is the more "educated" muslims who commit atrocities. The 9/11 hijackers and the London suicide bombers never went to a madrassa. How about the pakistani doctors who tried to blow up a nightclub and then drove their car into Glasgow airport?

[Narnian]

If he "claimed he was God" as you say, wouldn't the verse say "I am your Father"?

He did:

Joh 10:30 - "The Father and I are one"

[Mountain Man]

If he "claimed he was God" as you say, wouldn't the verse say "I am your Father"?

That's what he essentially said. Note that the pharisees he was speaking with immediately accused him of blasphemy, so they clearly understood what he was saying.

Now what about the other verses I pointed out?

Trinitarian Christians could be considered as holding a heretical belief too. "Heresy" is relative to a certain norm.

Trinitarianism is supported by the Bible. Monism is not. Thus, the latter view is heretical if one bases their belief on the Bible.

It affirmed ONE kind of trinity, out of many others. Theophilus' trinity included God as one part!

That was a minority view that does not have the support of scripture.

[watsup]

Islam does have, at the least, three things in common with Christianity.

The three things at the least, Islam has in common with Christianity - the alphabets "a", "i" and "s". Hmm. Not bad at all. "Islam is at the least, 60% in common with Christianity".

Now, just what to make out of Islam's other 40%?

[Ratnat]

this is a superficial similarity. If you scratch the surface, you will find that the history/mythology is also different. The actual doctrines of christianity and islam are vastly different.



that is pretty much integral to all religions. Zoroastrianism stands out.



I just addressed that one in the previous post.



So do Zoroastrians and Hindus.



That could be any religion or creed.



That's a difference, not a similarity.



All religions are "offshoots". Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism. This is not unique to chrisitianity and islam.



Islamic terrorists are highly educated, wealthy and westernised. It is the more "educated" muslims who commit atrocities. The 9/11 hijackers and the London suicide bombers never went to a madrassa. How about the pakistani doctors who tried to blow up a nightclub and then drove their car into Glasgow airport?

Your responses have shown that you agree neither Islam nor Christianity is unique.

The Islamic terrorism we see these days is not about attacking Christians, it is about attacking who they perceive to be oppressors and/or occupiers. They see themselves as being freedom fighters. Mixing political extremism with any religion has always been hazardous.

[brother vinny]

What's this "we" stuff? I'm thinking about behavioral similarities. All the deaths and persecutions in the name of your two gods. It can't be excused by saying the perps weren't "real" Christians. Barnasha makes plenty of posts, saying the same things about Muslims. I see no difference at all, merely a matter of timing.

"Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands." Ring any bells?