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Shalom!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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Two conjugations of the word "to know."
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostI am the Lord whose name will be revealed during the exodus .... . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostI am the Lord whose name will be revealed during the exodus ...
the covenant of the pieces or covenant between the parts (Hebrew: ברית בין הבתרים berith bayin hebatrim) was an important event in the biblical story of the patriarch Abraham. In this event God revealed himself to Abraham and made a covenant with him (at the site known nowadays as Mount Betarim), in which God announced to Abraham that his descendants would eventually inherit the Land of Israel. This was the first of a series of covenants made between God and the Patriarchs.
Now, John 17 states the same - "Jesus Prays for His Disciples"
6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.
In the prayer - Jesus said, "For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them." - See John 14:
Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Last Line:
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him.
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". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them? . . ." -- Exodus 6:3.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View Post". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them? . . ." -- Exodus 6:3.
God’s name is composed of the four letters that form the initials of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim" at the changeover from the sixth day, the profane, to the seventh day, the holy.
In the future it will become revealed that “the Lord is one and his name is one.” (Zechariah 14:9)
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostThe name of God is not an ordinary name like any other name.
God’s name is composed of the four letters that form the initials of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim" at the changeover from the sixth day, the profane, to the seventh day, the holy.
In the future it will become revealed that “the Lord is one and his name is one.” (Zechariah 14:9)
". . . that God may be all in all." -- 1 Corithians 15:28.
God,s Name means Self-Existent. In the third person for the I AM (Exodus 3:14) meaning the Who-Is.
". . . Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, . . ." -- Ephesians 3:15.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View Post
God,s Name means Self-Existent. In the third person for the I AM (Exodus 3:14) meaning the Who-Is.
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Rashi:
“Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)”: “I will be” with them in this predicament “what I will be” with them in their subjugation by other kingdoms. He [Moses] said before Him, “O Lord of the universe! Why should I mention to them another trouble? They have enough [problems] with this one.” He said to him, “You have spoken well. So shall you say, etc.” -[from Ber. 9b] (Not that Moses, God forbid, outsmarted God, but he did not understand what God meant, because originally, when God said, “I will be what I will be,” He told this to Moses alone, and He did not mean that he should tell it to Israel. That is the meaning of “You have spoken well,” for that was My original intention, that you should not tell such things to the children of Israel, only “So shall you say to the children of Israel,” ‘Ehyeh [I will be] has sent me.’”
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostRashi:. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostDo you mean that there is no reason for God to be there?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostNo. Only that which is self existent is the uncaused existence.
I thought reason and cause to be synonyms ...
Originally posted by 37818 View PostUncaused existence needs no God. Any entity contingent on existing is not God.
Mark 15:26,
καὶ ἦν ἡ ἐπιγραφὴ τῆς αἰτίας αὐτοῦ ἐπιγεγραμμένη, Ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων.
αἰτία
1) cause, reason 2) cause for which one is worthy of punishment, crime 3) charge of crime, accusation
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I tried to look up these two words:
Moreover, if we were truly dealing with revelation of a name that had not previous been known (as Bible criticism tries to maintain), then the root g-l-h (?? Gelah - to reveal), to reveal, would have been used, and not y-d-‘ (Yada), to know (p. 148). According to Benno Jacob, the distinction between the name El Shaddai and the tetragrammaton in our parasha is also reflected in the verbs that are used in conjunction with these two names: “appeared” and “made myself known:”
These verbs do not denote a greater or lesser intimacy in G-d’s revelation to the individual human being. It is a fact that Numbers 12:6 states with respect to the lower degree of prophecy, “I make Myself known to him in a vision” (using both the roots, r-a-h (Raah??), to see, and y-d-‘, to know)…
and Adam knew (yada—from the word Daat) Eve - Immediately following the episode of the expulsion from Eden we are told that Adam yada, knew, his wife. Apparently the word yada implies an experience. Similarly, Etz Ha'Daat, the Tree of Knowledge, was a tree of experience.
and, The Ramban interprets the word yodei as meaning loving, similar to (Bereishis 4:1), ‘Ve HaAdam yada es Chava ishto, Adam “knew” his wife Chava. The term “yodei shemechah v’lomdei Torasecha, those who know Your name and learn Your Torah, “ connotes the concept of those who love Your name rather than those who know Your name.
the root g-l-h (Gelah)– exile but also, g-l-h is also the root for “to reveal.”
Reference:
The Way to God: Interesting article to read.
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Originally posted by Marta View PostI tried to look up these two words:
Moreover, if we were truly dealing with revelation of a name that had not previous been known (as Bible criticism tries to maintain), then the root g-l-h (?? Gelah - to reveal), to reveal, would have been used, and not y-d-‘ (Yada), to know (p. 148). According to Benno Jacob, the distinction between the name El Shaddai and the tetragrammaton in our parasha is also reflected in the verbs that are used in conjunction with these two names: “appeared” and “made myself known:”
These verbs do not denote a greater or lesser intimacy in G-d’s revelation to the individual human being. It is a fact that Numbers 12:6 states with respect to the lower degree of prophecy, “I make Myself known to him in a vision” (using both the roots, r-a-h (Raah??), to see, and y-d-‘, to know)…
and Adam knew (yada—from the word Daat) Eve - Immediately following the episode of the expulsion from Eden we are told that Adam yada, knew, his wife. Apparently the word yada implies an experience. Similarly, Etz Ha'Daat, the Tree of Knowledge, was a tree of experience.
and, The Ramban interprets the word yodei as meaning loving, similar to (Bereishis 4:1), ‘Ve HaAdam yada es Chava ishto, Adam “knew” his wife Chava. The term “yodei shemechah v’lomdei Torasecha, those who know Your name and learn Your Torah, “ connotes the concept of those who love Your name rather than those who know Your name.
the root g-l-h (Gelah)– exile but also, g-l-h is also the root for “to reveal.”
Reference:
The Way to God: Interesting article to read.
The Lord descended in a pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the Tent. He called to Aaron and Miriam, and they both went out.
He said, "Please listen to My words. If there be prophets among you, (I) the Lord I will make Myself known to him in a vision ; I will speak to him in a dream.
Not so is My servant Moses; he is faithful throughout My house.
With him I speak mouth to mouth; in a vision and not in riddles, and he beholds the image of the Lord. So why were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses ?
Rashi: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...showrashi=true
(I) the Lord will make Myself known to him in a vision : The Divine Presence of My Name is not revealed to him with distinct clarity, but in a dream or a vision. - [Tanchuma Tzav 13]
in a vision but not in riddles: “A vision” refers to the vision of speech, for I express My communication to Him with absolute clarity, and I do not obscure it with riddles in the way it was said to Ezekiel, “Present a riddle” (Ezek. 17:2). I might think that it refers to the vision of the Divine Presence [itself]! Scripture therefore teaches, “You are not able to see My face” (Exod. 33:23). - [Sifrei Beha’alothecha 1:42:8, Tanchuma Tzav 13]
v.8 has "umarčh" - וּמַרְאֶה
"marah" = mirror; vision, revelation
"marčh" = sight, view, seeing, appearance, vision.
After this Paul wrote, 1 Corinthians 13:12,
βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι' ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον: ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.
For now we see through a mirror in riddles, then from face to face; now I know in parts, then I shall know even as I am known.Last edited by Geert van den Bos; 05-03-2016, 02:18 AM.
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Two verses:
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
and,
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
---John 14 Line 15, again - and as you pointed out earlier on the comparative to John 1:10 (to make known what was not known - like e.g. Exodus) He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
In contrast to the verb “to see,” here the verb “to know” (vida’atem) is interpreted as pertaining to realization of something,
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