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Thread: Two conjugations of the word "to know."

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
    To appear is a form of "raah"= to see.

    Genesis 17:1, "vayeira hashem el avram" = and the Lord appeared to Abram.

    Make known is a form of "yada" = to know.

    So you might think there is a connection between the fruit of the tree of knowledge and the name of God.

    Like if profanizing of the name is like the eating of the forbidden fruit.

    John 17:6,

    Ἐφανέρωσά σου τὸ ὄνομα τοῖς ἀνθρώποις οὓς ἔδωκάς μοι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου.

    φανερόω = make public

    but not for all people,

    only to those that were given to him out of the world.
    Comment to, "only to those that were given to him out of the world". In the same flex - that God appeared or made himself known to the patriarchs and made himself "known as" El Shaddai - "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty".
    However, and when reading the beginning of John 17, the prayer applies to plural and not designated to specific few,"3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you ":

    The 70 are to cure the sick and spread the same message that Jesus has been proclaiming. (Jesus Sends 70 Disciples to Preach)

    These disciples are not to focus on teaching in synagogues. Jesus tells them to go to people’s homes. “Wherever you enter into a house,” he instructs, “say first: ‘May this house have peace.’ And if a friend of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him.” What is to be their message? Jesus says: “Tell them: ‘The Kingdom of God has come near to you.’”—Luke 10:5-9.
    5 “When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’

    The prayer for the disciples was that Jesus "revealed – or made known “God”, in the same way as the patriarchs. If God was revealed to the patriarch using El Shaddai (God Almighty)– and then in the Exodus – as “does and fulfills, using Y.H.V.H – which was never used with the patriarchs. Then how does Jesus “make known” of God to the Disciples? If we use Mary as with Zechariah’s Song that both tell of the fulfillment of the promise of salvation



    A point toward the articles: Va'eira(Exodus 6:2-9:35)

    An Answer: If Hashem had said "I did not make My name known" it would have been untrue, since He did tell Abraham and Jacob this Divine name. Rather, what it says here is " I was not known by My name" - this implies the lack of a subjective, personal understanding of the significance of this name by Abraham or Jacob.
    Last edited by Marta; 04-27-2016 at 05:51 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta View Post
    Comment to, "only to those that were given to him out of the world". In the same flex - that God appeared or made himself known to the patriarchs and made himself "known as" El Shaddai - "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty".
    .
    Exodus 6:3 doesn't say that he (the Lord) made himself known as El Shadai, but that he (the Lord) appeared as El Shadai

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
    Exodus 6:3 doesn't say that he (the Lord) made himself known as El Shadai, but that he (the Lord) appeared as El Shadai
    Didn't indicate the name El Shaddai was used in Exodus - but that it had been revealed during Exodus, '"I am the LORD; 3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.…


    noting in the article:

    "but they had not yet experienced its realization as God who “does and fulfills"

    and Ezekiel: “I the Lord have spoken and I will act” (22:14; also cf. 12:25, 24:14, 36:36, and 37:14), where the tetragrammaton is used to indicate “saying and doing, … decreeing and fulfilling.”

    According to Abraham Joshua Heschel, "The true name of God is a mystery. It is stated in the Talmud, "And God said unto Moses...This is My name for ever (Exodus 3:15). The Hebrew word "for ever" (leolam) is written here in a way that it may be read "lealem" which means "to conceal". The name of God is to be concealed.

    It is rendered by the Jews as Adonai (literally, "My Lord"), by the Samaritans as Hashem, and by the translators of the Bible into Greek by the word "Lord" (kyrios).

    Again, this is not the point - the point being is that earlier patriarchs referred God - God Almighty (El Shaddai) later in Exodus, use of the tetragrammaton - as being the one who "does and fulfills" - going then to John 17, the prayer reads for the apostles - “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world". Revealed can mean the glory of God, the knowledge of God, the essence of God - it can mean many things. Even to the salvation of God - "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me" - is the manifestation of God, e.g. Exodus 33:18 - "Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory." In what way was it revealed - we know of the transfiguration and also, that God acknowledges that Jesus was his son after being baptized by John the Baptist - but to reveal could even be said, during the Pentecost that the spirit ascended on the apostles - and Mary.

    To quote, "The glory is the presence, not the the essence of God; an act rather than a quality; a process not a substance. Mainly the glory manifests itself as a power overwhelming the world. Demanding homage, it is a power that descends to guide, to remind. The glory reflects abundance of good and truth, the power that acts in nature and history. "The whole earth is full of HIs glory" see Isaiah 6:9-10

    as it says, " the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta View Post
    Didn't indicate the name El Shaddai was used in Exodus - but that it had been revealed during Exodus, '"I am the LORD; 3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.…
    "The name Lord" was revealed during Exodus

    The exodus being only complete with the entering of the Holy Land = kingdom of God.




    Quote Originally Posted by Marta View Post
    as it says, " the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea"
    glory = "kavod"

    I thought it be related to gravitation = "koach hakoved"

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/...ted-first-time
    Gravitational waves, Einstein's ripples in spacetime, spotted for first time

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
    "The name Lord" was revealed during Exodus
    ". . . And he said unto him, I [am] the LORD . . . " -- Genesis 15:7.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    ". . . And he said unto him, I [am] the LORD . . . " -- Genesis 15:7.
    I am the Lord whose name will be revealed during the exodus ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
    I am the Lord whose name will be revealed during the exodus ...
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
    I am the Lord whose name will be revealed during the exodus ...
    Correct - El Shaddai, was to the patriarchs (The verse states that God did not reveal the tetragrammaton to the patriarchs)but with Moses and also, the Israelites God reveals Himself as fulfilling his promise to redeem the Israelites from Egypt - does and fulfills (God reveal to Moses a name which, according to our verse, was concealed from the patriarchs). The whole of Exodus is that the covenant with Abraham had been fulfilled (God, by revealing his name to Moses, informs him that the purpose of his mission is to fulfill the promises which God made to the patriarchs of giving them the land of Israel.).

    the covenant of the pieces or covenant between the parts (Hebrew: ברית בין הבתרים berith bayin hebatrim) was an important event in the biblical story of the patriarch Abraham. In this event God revealed himself to Abraham and made a covenant with him (at the site known nowadays as Mount Betarim), in which God announced to Abraham that his descendants would eventually inherit the Land of Israel. This was the first of a series of covenants made between God and the Patriarchs.

    Now, John 17 states the same - "Jesus Prays for His Disciples"


    6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.

    In the prayer - Jesus said, "For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them." - See John 14:
    Jesus the Way to the Father

    5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

    6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

    8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

    9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

    Last Line:

    15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him.

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    ". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them? . . ." -- Exodus 6:3.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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