Kent Hovind in deep doo-doo again.

[TheLurch]

It's a really strange thing to me when a US citizen lionizes the IRS coming after another US citizen for tax evasion. That just blows me away. It even magnifies when it's two Christians. I can't even wrap my head around that enough to clearly argue why that's so immensely strange to me.

Regardless of any theological thoughts you might have, here's how i'd view it: I pay my taxes. People who avoid paying taxes annoy me - they're benefitting from things they're not paying for every time they leave the house, turn on the tap, etc. etc. I see nothing objectionable about the IRS ensuring that taxes get paid.

[HMS_Beagle]

It's a really strange thing to me when a US citizen lionizes the IRS coming after another US citizen for tax evasion. That just blows me away. It even magnifies when it's two Christians. I can't even wrap my head around that enough to clearly argue why that's so immensely strange to me.

Tax evasion is a federal crime. It''s stealing, fundamentally no different than embezzling money from a bank. Why is it so surprising that blatant cases like Hovind's get prosecuted?

[Roy]

Regardless of any theological thoughts you might have, here's how i'd view it: I pay my taxes. People who avoid paying taxes annoy me - they're benefitting from things they're not paying for every time they leave the house, turn on the tap, etc. etc. I see nothing objectionable about the IRS ensuring that taxes get paid.

Also, if some people don't pay their share towards communal costs, everyone else has to pay more.

[Carrikature]

Regardless of any theological thoughts you might have, here's how i'd view it: I pay my taxes. People who avoid paying taxes annoy me - they're benefitting from things they're not paying for every time they leave the house, turn on the tap, etc. etc. I see nothing objectionable about the IRS ensuring that taxes get paid.

Particularly when we can nail known criminals on tax evasion that we haven't been able to successfully pin down otherwise.

[oxmixmudd]

It's a really strange thing to me when a US citizen lionizes the IRS coming after another US citizen for tax evasion. That just blows me away. It even magnifies when it's two Christians. I can't even wrap my head around that enough to clearly argue why that's so immensely strange to me.

You are looking at it way wrong Sean. If a person does something against the law, or that is morally wrong, you don't 'support' them just because they are Christian or just because it was the IRS that came after them or just because they are <place your favorite label here>

1) Hovind was purposefully and willfully putting material out there that was just plain wrong and deceptive
2) Hovind was purposefully and willfully trying to get away with not paying his taxes.

These are both morally wrong things. Christian only plays into it in that it just makes it all the WORSE that he did this things while also claiming to present the truth of the Gospel.

And to be clear, I'm not one for actually 'rejoicing' in the man's downfall. I shake my head at it, it is sad, but I only wish for any wrongdoer that they get right with God and man - that they repent and change their ways. So it is my hope he comes to his senses, repents, gets right with God and man. But so far that doesn't seem to be the direction he's headed.

But I'm not going to say - Oh this fellow was a Christian so he should get a pass. Doesn't work that way.

Jim

[seanD]

You are looking at it way wrong Sean. If a person does something against the law, or that is morally wrong, you don't 'support' them just because they are Christian or just because it was the IRS that came after them or just because they are <place your favorite label here>

1) Hovind was purposefully and willfully putting material out there that was just plain wrong and deceptive
2) Hovind was purposefully and willfully trying to get away with not paying his taxes.

These are both morally wrong things. Christian only plays into it in that it just makes it all the WORSE that he did this things while also claiming to present the truth of the Gospel.

And to be clear, I'm not one for actually 'rejoicing' in the man's downfall. I shake my head at it, it is sad, but I only wish for any wrongdoer that they get right with God and man - that they repent and change their ways. So it is my hope he comes to his senses, repents, gets right with God and man. But so far that doesn't seem to be the direction he's headed.

But I'm not going to say - Oh this fellow was a Christian so he should get a pass. Doesn't work that way.

Jim

#1 - though this would be the proper discussion for this section of the forum, I suppose this is a debate on whether ToE is scientifically true or not and is a discussion that is pointless as it goes nowhere on this board, and a discussion that personally bores me now because I wasn't entirely sure if human evolution was scientifically false years before as I am now (I'm more interested in the theological implications of the discussion which isn't the proper discussion for this section).

#2 - is based on:
a) that income tax is even legal and moral, which is a debate in and of itself and is not fit for this section of the forum.
b) that Hovind actually did anything wrong which is solely predicated on the integrity of the agency that claims he broke the law, another debate that isn't fit for this section.

#2 is why it blows me away that you would be so quick to argue he got his just deserts. Because of #2, I would expect any US citizen to be cautious of that, whether atheist or theist, but especially an orthodox Christian such as yourself. That's all. No big deal. I'm over it. Since I've made my point, I'm done with the discussion on the matter here.

[HMS_Beagle]

#1 - though this would be the proper discussion for this section of the forum, I suppose this is a debate on whether ToE is scientifically true or not and is a discussion that is pointless as it goes nowhere on this board, and a discussion that personally bores me now because I wasn't entirely sure if human evolution was scientifically false years before as I am now

Thanks for confirming again your pitiful scientific ignorance.

that Hovind actually did anything wrong which is solely predicated on the integrity of the agency that claims he broke the law, another debate that isn't fit for this section.

The facts concerning Hovind's felonies have been well documented and are easily found online. That you were too lazy to look before knee-jerk defending what you perceived to be a "Christian victim" shows how important intellectual honesty is to you.

[Raphael]

To weigh in. I am a YEC (who has disagreed with a number of the arguments that Hovind chooses to use from before all the tax stuff) and I must admit that his behaviour of the tax situation is more than a little embarrassing. He's like that weird old uncle wearing just his underwear cracking obscene jokes that you try to ignore at family gatherings

[Roy]

#1 - though this would be the proper discussion for this section of the forum, I suppose this is a debate on whether ToE is scientifically true or not...

No, it's not. Even other YEC organisations warn against using Hovind's 'arguments'. It's a debate on whether it is ok to spread disinformation in support of your worldview.

Do you think it's ok to, for example, 'quote' a 1975 paper's description of a fossil that wasn't discovered until 1977?

b) that Hovind actually did anything wrong which is solely predicated on the integrity of the agency that claims he broke the law,

Claptrap. Evidence was provided in court.

[rogue06]

It's a really strange thing to me when a US citizen lionizes the IRS coming after another US citizen for tax evasion. That just blows me away. It even magnifies when it's two Christians. I can't even wrap my head around that enough to clearly argue why that's so immensely strange to me.

It wasn't just ripping off the taxpayers but his own employees who trusted and believed in him. He screwed them royally as well.

Then there was what he did in the court room. The absolute kindest way of portraying it was that he attempted to turn it into a three ring circus. Judges tend to take a dim view of that especially when it was shown that Hovind was also threatening and harassing the agents investigating him. Those things sealed his fate and resulted in the book being thrown at him. Many experts have said that if Hovind had acted civilly it would have been unlikely that he ever served any jail time.

[Juvenal]

Because of #2, I would expect any US citizen to be cautious of that, whether atheist or theist, but especially an orthodox Christian such as yourself.

I'm decidedly curious about what's left of orthodox Christianity after you've eliminated Matthew.

Show me the money for the tax." And they brought him a coin. And Jesus said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" They said, "Caesar's." Then he said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

And Mark.

Bring me a coin, and let me look at it." And they brought one. And he said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" They said to him, "Caesar's." Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

And Luke.

Show me a coin. Whose likeness and inscription has it?" They said, "Caesar's." He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."