Graeme Jones' Aliens in the Bible thread

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

Wow, I'm gone for a few days and you already find a new toy and break him before I even get a chance to chime in.

I'v only read the first couple of pages, but I think this guy is one of the worst I'v ever seen. Unfortunitly theres not too much for me to add, but I thin I'll throw in my $.02 anyway.

I just recently saw Zeitgast, and holy crap is it bad. It combines two lame conspircy theories into one super lame movie. Note to self: Make a movie suggesting that aliens killed JFK and the government is covering it up. Fundy athiests will love it.

speaking of aliens, I thought the thread title would be the typical crap about how the prophets saw aliens and mistook them for god/angels ect. But this is much much worse. Graaeme, you do realize that the word 'alien' actually means stranger or forginer, it was never applied to extra-terrestrials until the 1950's when sci-fi movies, the possibility of space travel and the Roswell 'sightings' made it a hot topic.

Thats about all I have for now. I may throw some more around as I go through the thread.

[Sparko]

Note to self: Make a movie suggesting that aliens killed JFK and the government is covering it up. Fundy athiests will love it.

You are so clueless! JFK WAS an alien. Why do you think he started the whole moon project? He was stranded here and wanted to get back to his base on the moon. Unfortunately the Illuminati found out about his plan and assasinated him.

[Graeme_Jones2]

In other words, you haven't given us much to go on to prove that you're smart

You seem to think that smart means being a christian. Obviously i define

'smart' slightly differently

You tell us the modern Greek word for "alien" is to be found in the Bible and refuse to inform us which translation you're using.

The translation I use is a free one some christain gave me ages ago so they must have felt that it was an o.k translation

Justify your use of the modern Greek word instead of the one found in extant GREEK MANUSCRIPTS!

the word 'alien' is used in my bible. are you saying my bible is wrong?

Wow! No wonder you're so stupid! Let's take a look at some of these sources...

I haven't read them all however these are where the information on Zeitgeist comes from. I can't see anything wrong with the sources - the list is fairly long so whoever made zeitgeist must be well read

19th century scholarship is good enough for you, eh?

What's wrong with 19th century scholarship. Otherwise in 100 years time people might say 'you're using that 21st century scholarship'

Nothing like a non expert who has zero credentials in the area of biblical studies. Egyptology, or theology who pretends she's an expert to sell books. Why should I believe people like NT Wright or William Lane Craig when we got her.

That seems like an ad hoc attack on the author

He's already stated twice that "Ignorance makes you a professional in those fields"

The problem is that professionals get so familar with their stuff they cannot see its problems. It is like when you write a sentence and make a typo. Because you are an expert on what you've written you don't see the typo. A non-expert comes along and see the typo straight away. The same is true with philosophy. Although is philosophyand theology a real subject? (click here to see what I mean)

You got yourself into this by the way. You just submitted a lot of sources, and it wasn't from wiki, and it wasn't from google. But you should have used common sense. Like, we continually looked at zeitgeist and said it was a bunch of junk.

I did and though that Zeitgesit had some good arguments.

why they didn't consult any modern scholarly sources like Edwin Yamauchi

Who outside of this forum has heard of Edwin Yamauchi (O.k - obviously the odd person here and there) I can't see why the makers of Zeitgesit should have heard of this guy

He has promised to do in the future - mainly through the work, life, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.

If those things happened and they weren't just made up by the church

Science does not presuppose the existence or non-existence of God.

Science goes in and looks at the evidence. Scientific evidence shows that god doesn't exist. The world would look very different if god had made it

By the way, did you happen to notice these Christian science organizations?

I wouldn't go anywhere near christian science organisation - they are basically creationist groups pretending that their blind faith is science.

All right, then where in the Bible does the word "alien" come up?

1 Peter 2:11

THEY HAVE BEEN DISPROVEN!

I'm not convinced

I've been waiting for an reply to that one myself.

I've given you my reply

S

houldn't those here who haven't seen Zeitgeist, by your criteria, be deemed all the better for lacking detailed awareness of what it claims?

No - there is a difference between not being an expert and knowing nothing about something.

3) Would you rather have us diversify our responses by incorporating some interpretive dance or something?

it's up to you

Nice try. You realize that in River Out of Eden, Richard Dawkins said there is no good or evil but in the God Delusion, he complains about how evil God is. Which is it?

no - god is evil and atheists can be good

Nice try. You realize that in River Out of Eden, Richard Dawkins said there is no good or evil but in the God Delusion, he complains about how evil God is. Which is it?

you should watch it - you'll learn a lot

And I saw a tv show that said God is real and the bible is true, and since TV only tells the truth then that is pretty much a slam dunk.

god tv channels doesn't count

synchronized posting

What is synchronized posting?

But I'll address it directly : the linked article doesn't say what you claim. What FZ Myers says, with wit and mocking humour, is that if you think the Emperor has no clothes, it is absurd to argue about the details of them with those who do.

err...no! Let me quote the article: "I have considered the impudent accusations of Mr Dawkins with exasperation at his lack of serious scholarship." I think [pretty much every post on this thread (except my own) come under this category

Note to self: Make a movie suggesting that aliens killed JFK and the government is covering it up. Fundy athiests will love it.

Can I make it clear that i don't believe in aliens

you do realize that the word 'alien' actually means stranger or forginer, it was never applied to extra-terrestrials until the 1950's when sci-fi movies, the possibility of space travel and the Roswell 'sightings' made it a hot topic.

So what did they call them before the 1950's if you're so smart? I'm sure that's not true.

[MrManNo1]

Graeme, you get an amen for doing such a great fundy atheist impression! Keep it coming. It's funny.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

Can I make it clear that i don't believe in aliens

Aside from the fact that I think its a rather silly position to take, you completely missed my point.

So what did they call them before the 1950's if you're so smart? I'm sure that's not true.

Extra-terrestrials. Which is still considered the proper term. Also Martions, since it was commonly believed, until somewhat recently that Mars was capable of supporting life.

Although, again the idea wasnt really a part of popular culture, until the '50s. In fact the only real popular depiction of extra terristerals prior to then was War of the Worlds(the H. G. Wells novels, and later the radio show), in which they were called Martions, because...well they came from Mars.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

You are so clueless! JFK WAS an alien. Why do you think he started the whole moon project? He was stranded here and wanted to get back to his base on the moon. Unfortunately the Illuminati found out about his plan and assasinated him.

ah yes thats right, thanks for clearing that up. But how does Hitler and the Knights Templar fit into all this. And what about all those crop circles?

[Chaotic Void]

You seem to think that smart means being a christian. Obviously i define
'smart' slightly differently

I define "Smart" as being able to assert ones position with legitimate evidence and comprehensible sentence structure. I tend to rule out the last one if they have a legitimate reason for being unable to do so [ie, They're just learning English]

Being a Christian has nothing to do with it. If you can't assert your position with legitimate evidence and understandable sentence structure [and have no legit reason why I should rule out the last one], then you're either lazy, stupid, gullible, or an amalgam of the three.

you should watch it - you'll learn a lot

First you claim that Ignorance on History/Philosophy/Religion is a good thing, then you tell us to learn by watching Zeitgeist?

I think you just shot yourself in the foot. [Figuratively, of course]

god tv channels doesn't count

You have crappy sentence structure and hypocrisy in the same sentence. That's hilarious!

Seriously, not all Theology-related stuff is on the God Channel. I've heard that Documentaries about Christianity have been seen on the History Channel.

So what did they call them before the 1950's if you're so smart? I'm sure that's not true.

Those who were aware of the ET concept called them Extraterrestrials.

[Sparko]

ah yes thats right, thanks for clearing that up. But how does Hitler and the Knights Templar fit into all this. And what about all those crop circles?

sheesh you really are clueless.

OK. I will explain it simplified for you..

The crop circles were done by the Illuminati to draw attention away from the middle east, where the Knights templar had tunneled under the temple mount and were setting up a secret lab where they were working on combining the DNA of Jesus from the Shroud of Turin and the DNA from Hitler to create the Anti-Christ. They tried to get JFK to participate since he had access to alien technology, but he refused, only wishing to get back to his moonbase. When the Knights Templar told their buds, the Iluminati about JFK, they decided to assasinate him rather than let him get back to his moonbase.

The current crop circles are just weak imitations done by drunken scotsmen who want to impress their girlfriends.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

Okay some more of Graeme's nonsense that deserves a quotation:

O.K, if you really are prepared to hear my devastating arguments although don't come crying to me when you all loose your faith (has it ever occurred to you that belief in stuff without evidence might be bad?).

Yep, thats why i dont believe stuff without evidence.

As for Zeitgeist I'll start with this knock-down argument: As you know, Jesus fed the 5000 with fish. Pisces (as in horoscopes) was also a fish. The only explanation for this is that Christianity was another form of horoscopes.

The only explanation. I have another one: Jesus actually did feed 5000 with fish and loaves(how do the loaves fit in this thesis anyway?).
But lets see how you 'logic'(such as it is) can apply to a slightly different situation:
Samus Aran(from Metroid) had a alser cannon on her armBarret(from Final Fantasy VII) also had a laser cannon on his arm. The only explanation of this is that FFVII was another form of Metroid.

And this is before we start on all the scientific inaccuracies in the Bible. We all know about evolution etc but what about this:
1) Jesus taught us to love God with all our heart, all our mind and with all our strength
2) The heart pumps blood around your body
3) The brain does all the loving
4) It should have been love your god with all your brain, with all your heart and with all your strength
5) Jesus made a scientific error
6) Jesus was not a scientist
7)Jesus was not God

Aside from the fact that 'heart' in this case is obviously metaphorical(even today we talk of 'loving people with all our heart'). How does the fact that Jesus wasnt a scientist prove he wasnt God?

[MrManNo1]

Samus Aran(from Metroid) had a alser cannon on her armBarret(from Final Fantasy VII) also had a laser cannon on his arm. The only explanation of this is that FFVII was another form of Metroid.

Video games are played on TV, and everything on TV is true, so this must be true.

[Sparko]

i cant believe people are still answering Graeme as if he actually believes the junk he is saying. He is pulling your leg people.

Come on. "everything on tv is true" "except god tv channels" ??? you really buy that he believes that?

sheesh. You all deserve to be strung along.

[jpholding]

i cant believe people are still answering Graeme as if he actually believes the junk he is saying. He is pulling your leg people.

Come on. "everything on tv is true" "except god tv channels" ??? you really buy that he believes that?

sheesh. You all deserve to be strung along.

I dunno Sparko. I've seen his kind posting very seriously on richarddawkins.net, as well as on Brian Flemming's forums and on places like the RRS boards.

Never underestimate the power of stupidity!

[Chaotic Void]

Like I said, Sparko... I've tangled with, and go to school with, dumber.... A couple of girls I talked to thought that the one apostle near Jesus in DaVinci's painting of the Last Supper was Mary Magdalene only because they read that in The DVC.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

The current crop circles are just weak imitations done by drunken scotsmen who want to impress their girlfriends.

So that explains what my friend's were doing in that field at 3 in the morning.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

i cant believe people are still answering Graeme as if he actually believes the junk he is saying. He is pulling your leg people.

Come on. "everything on tv is true" "except god tv channels" ??? you really buy that he believes that?

sheesh. You all deserve to be strung along.

I'm almost inclined to agree with you. Although I'v seen other's almost as bad were just as serious.