Originally posted by Meh Gerbil
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A proof for the Stationary Earth, Part 2
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI dont know anyone that posted "text book" facts to JM. Everyone used actual math and physics to show him he is wrong. Maybe you should read the thread(s) before pronouncing your verdict.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Sparko View Poster, yeah. OKAAAAYYY. You know that math and physics can be tested, right? even by gerbils. or maybe using gerbils. I forget.
Outside of quoting a textbook how do you know the earth is rotating?Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostQuestion:
When responding to John Martin's assertions did anyone do something other than simply take the word of a textbook?
So there rodent.
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostI have. I've been involved in the design, launch, and operation of geostationary satellites. I know their orbital parameters and why they exhibit the behavior they do, like tracing analemma patterns in the sky.
So there rodent.
Follow up question:
1: If you were to select 1 million random US Citizens how many of them do you suppose believe the earth rotates?
2: If you were to select 1 million random US Citizens how many of them do you suppose could back up the belief with first hand knowledge?
I don't have an opinion on the rotation of the earth.
My best guess is that our current models are accurate not because of what I read in a textbook but because many countries have done work similar to yours and if our models were incorrect someone, somewhere would be kicking up a fuss about it. In other words, I base my beliefs not on the false notion that humans are honest with science but that the human desire to prove others wrong is so strong that bad models have a tendency to get crushed unless they're back by really big money.
None of that has anything to do with me having the slightest clue as to what the implications of a rotating earth would be.
It's best that I don't have an opinion on the matter.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI appreciate that, Sparko, but in refuting JohnMartin how many people actually did any testing?
Outside of quoting a textbook how do you know the earth is rotating?
There are lots of ways to know the earth is rotating. A few are: 1. We have satellites in geostationary orbit. If the earth was not rotating, how would they remain above the same point on the earth? they are in orbit. 2. We have wind patterns that are measurable that you can see on weather maps and video showing rotating cloud patterns caused by the Coriolis effect of a rotating sphere. 3. Foucault's pendulum. It directly measures the rotation of the earth using inertia. 4. direct observation by those same before mentioned satellites. 5. rocket launches use the rotational speed of the earth to gain extra speed during take-off. That is why they always go into orbit in an easterly direction and launch as close to the equator as they can.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI think this is a reasonable response.
Follow up question:
1: If you were to select 1 million random US Citizens how many of them do you suppose believe the earth rotates?
2: If you were to select 1 million random US Citizens how many of them do you suppose could back up the belief with first hand knowledge?
I don't have an opinion on the rotation of the earth.
My best guess is that our current models are accurate not because of what I read in a textbook but because many countries have done work similar to yours and if our models were incorrect someone, somewhere would be kicking up a fuss about it. In other words, I base my beliefs not on the false notion that humans are honest with science but that the human desire to prove others wrong is so strong that bad models have a tendency to get crushed unless they're back by really big money.
None of that has anything to do with me having the slightest clue as to what the implications of a rotating earth would be.
It's best that I don't have an opinion on the matter.
If some boob comes along claiming the Earth is hollow I can show him verified scientific results of geologic sonographs with data the Earth isn't hollow. I don't need to dig a tunnel to the Earth's core myself.
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostWhat's with the requirement that all knowledge be "first hand" to be acceptable? I imagine there are very few people if any who can back up everything science knows with first hand knowledge. Fortunately we don't have to. We have trained professional scientists, experts who study the various topics and who have established beyond any reasonable doubt certain scientific facts. I don't have to do the work myself as long as I understand what I'm discussing and can reference the verified work of others.
If some boob comes along claiming the Earth is hollow I can show him verified scientific results of geologic sonographs with data the Earth isn't hollow. I don't need to dig a tunnel to the Earth's core myself.
I would say that arguing about second hand knowledge as if it were first hand knowledge is little more than quote mining.
In all my years of internet trolling I've come up with two conclusions:
1: Most people have no actual experience/expertise with the things they argue - they are little more than quote miners who can link to articles but do no actual thinking of their own.
2: Most of the hotly debated issues have no practical impact whatsoever. For example, if you issued a bulletin tomorrow that declared that the earth wasn't rotating the VAST majority of people would blink their eyes stupidly (including me) and then eat some toast and go to work.
The axiom I'd use is this: The need for something to be first hand observable is directly proportional to it's importance.
Whether or not the earth rotates is important to about 4 people in the world.
You'd be one of them.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostNo, I wouldn't say all knowledge would have to be first hand to be acceptable.
I would say that arguing about second hand knowledge as if it were first hand knowledge is little more than quote mining.
In all my years of internet trolling I've come up with two conclusions:
1: Most people have no actual experience/expertise with the things they argue - they are little more than quote miners who can link to articles but do no actual thinking of their own.
2: Most of the hotly debated issues have no practical impact whatsoever. For example, if you issued a bulletin tomorrow that declared that the earth wasn't rotating the VAST majority of people would blink their eyes stupidly (including me) and then eat some toast and go to work.
edited: I take that back. they could probably be programmed to still work with a stationary earth, but it would have have to be planned that way from the beginning. Meaning the rotating earth would be a massive nefarious plot by the world's scientist to fool us all these years.Last edited by Sparko; 05-03-2016, 10:34 AM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThere are lots of ways to know the earth is rotating.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/...han-the-earth/
We can explain lots of subtle variations in the timing of day length based on the earth's angular momentum, which only exists because the earth is rotating. With current precision atomic clocks, we can even detect changes in the angular momentum produced as sap rises in trees in the spring, shifting some of the planet's mass to slightly further from the center of its axis of rotation.
Again, i can't see that personally, but it can be done."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostNo, I wouldn't say all knowledge would have to be first hand to be acceptable.
I would say that arguing about second hand knowledge as if it were first hand knowledge is little more than quote mining.
The axiom I'd use is this: The need for something to be first hand observable is directly proportional to it's importance.
In order to explain pro football to a non-american do you first need to have played pro football yourself to get first hand knowledge? Or will second hand knowledge of the rules and strategy do?
You're making only marginally more sense than JM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postand promptly get caught in a traffic jam as everyone's GPS units stopped working because there were no gps satellites in orbit. (although gps satellites are not in geostationary orbit, they do need to be able to position themselves relative to the surface of the earth while remaining in orbit. A stationary earth would mean they would be orbiting much too fast for them to work.
edited: I take that back. they could probably be programmed to still work with a stationary earth, but it would have have to be planned that way from the beginning. Meaning the rotating earth would be a massive nefarious plot by the world's scientist to fool us all these years.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post2: Most of the hotly debated issues have no practical impact whatsoever.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post1: Most people have no actual experience/expertise with the things they argue - they are little more than quote miners who can link to articles but do no actual thinking of their own.Last edited by Yttrium; 05-03-2016, 11:42 AM.Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.
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