Human Chimeras

[Cerebrum123]

Batman Beyond was generally great.

Yup. I haven't seen a cartoon made that good* in a long time. Zeta Project was really good, but it was a Batman Beyond spin-off.

*Not that I haven't seen good ones since, they just never met that high bar. Lately though, only one or two cartoons I can think of off hand that are decent. One of them is hit or miss.

[Sparko]

Augmenting human dna is popular in science fiction, but I'm not certain how realistic it is. Maybe TheLurch can provide some insight on that. From the sound of it, though, you'd have to be engineering humans while still in embryonic stage, and that definitely isn't ethically viable.

I don't know, Gene Replacement therapy is coming along and it won't be too long before they will have perfected it. Basically they program a virus to "infect you" with the wanted gene. The dna is thus changed.

[seanD]

Augmenting human dna is popular in science fiction, but I'm not certain how realistic it is. Maybe TheLurch can provide some insight on that. From the sound of it, though, you'd have to be engineering humans while still in embryonic stage, and that definitely isn't ethically viable.

From what I gathered of the article, it's not so much the human cells they use to initially insert in the embryo. The main concern was the possibility they couldn't control the spread of the cells as the embryo develops, thus could "blur the line between species" and even alter its cognitive state if human cells spread to the brain. Of course, based on my ignorance of the subject I could be reading it wrong, so, yeah, I'd like Lurch to expound on that; and I'm still waiting for him to clarify the ethical issues he sees with it.

[Carrikature]

From what I gathered of the article, it's not so much the human cells they use to initially insert in the embryo. The main concern was the possibility they couldn't control the spread of the cells as the embryo develops, thus could "blur the line between species" and even alter its cognitive state if human cells spread to the brain. Of course, based on my ignorance of the subject I could be reading it wrong, so, yeah, I'd like Lurch to expound on that; and I'm still waiting for him to clarify the ethical issues he sees with it.

They mentioned those concerns in the article, but nothing else they mentioned supported those concerns. Resnik's comment about a mouse screaming it wants to get out involves all sorts of leaps that aren't credible. Such a mouse would have to develop sentience, learn human language, and grow a larynx suitable for human speech. It's just hyperbole, as is the bit about blurring the line between species.

From the NIH reference: "Given the rapid expansion of potential research models employed beyond the scope described above, NIH would like to undertake a deliberative process to evaluate the state of the science in this area, the ethical issues that should be considered, and the relevant animal welfare concerns associated with these types of studies."

The NIH just wants to have a firm grasp of what's happening before they fund more research in this area.

[Sparko]

They mentioned those concerns in the article, but nothing else they mentioned supported those concerns. Resnik's comment about a mouse screaming it wants to get out involves all sorts of leaps that aren't credible. Such a mouse would have to develop sentience, learn human language, and grow a larynx suitable for human speech. It's just hyperbole, as is the bit about blurring the line between species.

From the NIH reference: "Given the rapid expansion of potential research models employed beyond the scope described above, NIH would like to undertake a deliberative process to evaluate the state of the science in this area, the ethical issues that should be considered, and the relevant animal welfare concerns associated with these types of studies."

The NIH just wants to have a firm grasp of what's happening before they fund more research in this area.

Besides, the mice already control the world. They are pan dimensional beings that created the earth in the first place.

[Carrikature]

I don't know, Gene Replacement therapy is coming along and it won't be too long before they will have perfected it. Basically they program a virus to "infect you" with the wanted gene. The dna is thus changed.

I'm generally skeptical of "won't be too long" and "perfected". A lot of what that means to researchers doesn't match what laymen mean by those terms. As far as I know, single gene therapy is coming along nicely, but that may not translate to multiple genes. There are also potential issues with inheritability.

[Carrikature]

Besides, the mice already control the world. They are pan dimensional beings that created the earth in the first place.

I knew Pinky had it all figured out. Brain spends all his energy trying to achieve that which has already been accomplished. And people think Brain was the smart one.

[seanD]

They mentioned those concerns in the article, but nothing else they mentioned supported those concerns. Resnik's comment about a mouse screaming it wants to get out involves all sorts of leaps that aren't credible. Such a mouse would have to develop sentience, learn human language, and grow a larynx suitable for human speech. It's just hyperbole, as is the bit about blurring the line between species.

From the NIH reference: "Given the rapid expansion of potential research models employed beyond the scope described above, NIH would like to undertake a deliberative process to evaluate the state of the science in this area, the ethical issues that should be considered, and the relevant animal welfare concerns associated with these types of studies."

The NIH just wants to have a firm grasp of what's happening before they fund more research in this area.

The part about altering its cognitive state didn't seem like hyperbole to me

[Carrikature]

The part about altering its cognitive state didn't seem like hyperbole to me

I think the level of credulity is generally higher when people start discussing minds and consciousness. Suffice to say that cognition is extremely complex. I don't think even replacing all of a creature's brain cells with human cells would achieve human-level cognition. It wouldn't affect sensory input, for starters. It might affect understanding language, but it doesn't help express a language.

Let's not forget that large chunks of DNA can be extremely similar between species. Check out this piece on Homologous genes.

[TheLurch]

Sorry, busy week at work. If people want to dump some questions they'd like explained in one place, i'll try to get to it before the weekend.

As for ethical issues raised by the work, the use of stem cells and the decision to treat a living being as a tool for human use are two that seem obvious. I'm not going to get into my own opinions on these, but it's clear that people hold wildly divergent views on both of these.

[seanD]

I think the level of credulity is generally higher when people start discussing minds and consciousness. Suffice to say that cognition is extremely complex. I don't think even replacing all of a creature's brain cells with human cells would achieve human-level cognition. It wouldn't affect sensory input, for starters. It might affect understanding language, but it doesn't help express a language.

Let's not forget that large chunks of DNA can be extremely similar between species. Check out this piece on Homologous genes.

The point that stands out to me, and the point I think you're missing, is the concern of cell spreading during embryonic development and their inability to control that, which implies it could spread into other areas than just the brain. That's the part to me that sounds like NIH wanted clarity. I doubt they would inject cells into the brain intentionally.