Tribalism

[Ratnat]

Because there's a limit to tribe size?

(And thanks for your clarification )

Some anthros put the number at around 150 or at least used to. Dunbar's number.lol

Here is an overview with a link to books with further info if you are interested.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

[FreezBee]

Some anthros put the number at around 150 or at least used to. Dunbar's number.lol

Here is an overview with a link to books with further info if you are interested.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

Thanks for the link. It's really interesting

[shunyadragon]

If that is tribalism

Very likely, there is a concept of what may be called a social sense of community at different levels, such as the family, community, tribe and nation. There is natural tendency for things to divide along various lines of differences as cultural units grow in size.

No it doesn't, and that may be a really serious problem. I mean, Muslims are required by the Qur'an to spread Islam, and Christians are required by the Bible to spread Christianity, but we can't all be both (by definition), so a recipe for a WW III?


- FreezBee

There is the Baha'i alternative.

[FreezBee]

There is the Baha'i alternative.

Except that the Baha'i ar persecuted by Muslims

[shunyadragon]

Except that the Baha'i ar persecuted by Muslims

the problem is the world views that are at war, and not whether one is persecuted or not. the Baha'is have basically resolved the conflict that the Jews, Christians and Muslims have been fighting over for millennia.

Whether true or not, the Baha'i world view offers a reasonable resolution to tribal conflict that has escalated to religious conflicts to national conflict to international conflict. We will not be chucking spears in WWIII.

One interesting note is many of the divisions in Christianity follow many ancient tribal lines.

[shunyadragon]

Some anthros put the number at around 150 or at least used to. Dunbar's number.lol

Here is an overview with a link to books with further info if you are interested.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

Dunbar's number more closely relates to size of the basic community with in a tribe. 150 represents a mean community size that functions well above about 200 results in divisions into separate communities. Below a certain number communities do not function well.

[Zeluvia]

Someone should take Dunbar's number and look at on line gaming guilds, because I think the 150 number would correlate well there too.

Guilds tend to break when they get too large, and recombine. But it requires a core number to splt off to form the newer guild, the newer guild may or may not make it, depending on the quality of the leadership and membership.

I think on line games are a rich source of anthropological and sociological study, especially the long running MMOs.

What is a gaming guild but a virtual tribe?

[FreezBee]

Someone should take Dunbar's number and look at on line gaming guilds, because I think the 150 number would correlate well there too.

Guilds tend to break when they get too large, and recombine. But it requires a core number to splt off to form the newer guild, the newer guild may or may not make it, depending on the quality of the leadership and membership.

I think on line games are a rich source of anthropological and sociological study, especially the long running MMOs.

What is a gaming guild but a virtual tribe?

Good points, Zeluvia

MMORPGs may well be some of the best places for studying tribal behavior, since they are relatively new, and therefore the rules are less cut in stone than in the 'real' world.


- FreezBee

[FreezBee]

the problem is the world views that are at war, and not whether one is persecuted or not. the Baha'is have basically resolved the conflict that the Jews, Christians and Muslims have been fighting over for millennia.

Whether true or not, the Baha'i world view offers a reasonable resolution to tribal conflict that has escalated to religious conflicts to national conflict to international conflict. We will not be chucking spears in WWIII.

Back in my high school days, I considered becoming a Baha'i for those reasons, but that's a long time ago

One interesting note is many of the divisions in Christianity follow many ancient tribal lines.

They do?


- FreezBee

[Zeluvia]

I was thinking that one of the most of interesting things about on line "tribalism" is that it forms and breaks without regard to physical cues.

In the real world, people tend to identify with people that Look like them...

The gaming world removes the physical communication from the process, and it becomes a pure personality interaction.

[Ratnat]

Good points, Zeluvia

MMORPGs may well be some of the best places for studying tribal behavior, since they are relatively new, and therefore the rules are less cut in stone than in the 'real' world.


- FreezBee

For all we know, TWEB may be just an experiment in tribal dynamics and we are all mere guinea pigs.

[FreezBee]

For all we know, TWEB may be just an experiment in tribal dynamics and we are all mere guinea pigs.

Or gerbils?

[shunyadragon]

Back in my high school days, I considered becoming a Baha'i for those reasons, but that's a long time ago

To be enlightened is to become a child agian.

They do?

Yes, the core of the Tribal allegiances that made up Rome remained the core of the Roman Church from Spain, Southern France to Italy to Romania, the Germanic tribes and the Celts formed the various Protestant churches. The Eastern Church separated and later divided along old tribal regions into the various orthodox churches. The Jews remained faithful to their tribal allegiances. The African branches of early Christianity remained faithful to their tribal allegiances.




- FreezBee[/quote]

[FreezBee]

To be enlightened is to become a child agian.

Yes, but to become a child again is not necessarily to become enlightened.

Yes, the core of the Tribal allegiances that made up Rome remained the core of the Roman Church from Spain, Southern France to Italy to Romania, the Germanic tribes and the Celts formed the various Protestant churches. The Eastern Church separated and later divided along old tribal regions into the various orthodox churches. The Jews remained faithful to their tribal allegiances. The African branches of early Christianity remained faithful to their tribal allegiances.

I agree to some extent. Though, please notice that it isn't true that "the Germanic tribes and the Celts formed the various Protestant churches". I've heard that there be Catholics on Ireland, but maybe I have been misled? And Germany has many Roman Catholics, and Austria is large Roman Catholic. Croats are Roman Catholic, while the neighboring Serbs are Orthodoc, and many Bosnians are Muslim.

- FreezBee

[shunyadragon]

Yes, but to become a child again is not necessarily to become enlightened.

True, but appearing to be a child again is not necessarily becoming a child again.

I agree to some extent. Though, please notice that it isn't true that "the Germanic tribes and the Celts formed the various Protestant churches". I've heard that there be Catholics on Ireland, but maybe I have been misled? And Germany has many Roman Catholics, and Austria is large Roman Catholic. Croats are Roman Catholic, while the neighboring Serbs are Orthodox, and many Bosnians are Muslim.

- FreezBee

The old Yugoslavia is what I call a triple point ( a term I use that comes from geology where three plates come together to form an unstable junction) of regional conflict, where ancient traditional differences come together with violent consequences.

Of course, not all become protestants or whatever, but nonetheless, the various different churches follow old tribal regional lines of origin and membership. The Orthodox faiths broke along regional lines and than more local differences in Eastern Europe.

I believe there still needs to be a time when humanity must embrace our natural oneness and give up the ghost of the past whether a 'Source' we call God exists or not. The alternatives are not pleasant with the mix of tribal wars and modern weapons.