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Book Plunge: Making Gay Okay

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
    It is inequality to treat two things which are different as if they are the same.
    So it is inequality to treat a black person and a white person the same?

    We are all human beings. Our choice of adult life partners (or lovers) should receive equal treatment under the law.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
      Science is really completely irrelevant to the objection of forcing homosexuality on society. What people want to do on their own is not my business, but what they try to force on society is.
      What is being forced on you?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Gary View Post
        So it is inequality to treat a black person and a white person the same?

        We are all human beings. Our choice of adult life partners (or lovers) should receive equal treatment under the law.
        Why? Homosexual couples are pointless to a society as an entire category.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          Science is really completely irrelevant to the objection of forcing homosexuality on society. What people want to do on their own is not my business, but what they try to force on society is.
          I do not think that 'the objection of forcing homosexuality on society,' is the problem, the opposition from many traditional beliefs that force the other way and will not allow a diversity in human society, and try to force all in the society to conform to the dictates of one religion or church. I do not believe that your view allows people to do on their own to be there own business.

          Yes, science is an issue in many aspects of the problems of ancient religious beliefs clinging to ancient views in conflict with science. This does create an unresolved conflict that causes many to take alternate pths outside the ancient traditional choices.
          Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-10-2016, 04:59 PM.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            Why? Homosexual couples are pointless to a society as an entire category.
            It is their freedom to choose this path according to the laws not bound by religious agendas to control the nation regardless of what individuals or other groups believe, and not whether 'Homosexual couples are pointless to a society as an entire category.'
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
              It is not at all about finding love, it is about forcing people to celebrate perverse sex. Personally I have no problem with homosexuals doing what ever they do among themselves. Equality does not involve forcing me to voice approval, or even stop voicing disapproval.
              Who is forcing you to celebrate anyone's sex acts? Have the police forced you to participate in a Gay Pride parade or something?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                Why? Homosexual couples are pointless to a society as an entire category.
                Pointless to you, maybe, but the majority of your society sees it differently.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  I do not think that 'the objection of forcing homosexuality on society,' is the problem, the opposition from many traditional beliefs that force the other way and will not allow a diversity in human society, and try to force all in the society to conform to the dictates of one religion or church. I do not believe that your view allows people to do on their own to be there own business.

                  Yes, science is an issue in many aspects of the problems of ancient religious beliefs clinging to ancient views in conflict with science. This does create an unresolved conflict that causes many to take alternate pths outside the ancient traditional choices.
                  Forcing a Christian owned business to support homosexual marriage, the cake baking issue for example, is very much forcing something on society. Homosexuality is no longer illegal in the United States so it is dishonest to say, Christians "will not allow a diversity in human society, and try to force all in the society to conform to the dictates of one religion or church. I do not believe that your view allows people to do on their own to be there own business." The force I have seen all goes one way, homosexuality is forced on Christians. We are not allowed to say "No I will not take part in that as it is against my faith." This is not in any way forcing anything on homosexuals. It is simply refusing to be a part of it.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gary View Post
                    Who is forcing you to celebrate anyone's sex acts? Have the police forced you to participate in a Gay Pride parade or something?
                    I already responded to this.

                    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post318029
                    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gary View Post
                      Pointless to you, maybe, but the majority of your society sees it differently.
                      Wrong. Voters have repeatedly defeated gay marriage, for example, yet the activist liberal courts have over ruled them. The people do not see it the way you claim. It is liberal domineering.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        Wrong. Voters have repeatedly defeated gay marriage, for example, yet the activist liberal courts have over ruled them. The people do not see it the way you claim. It is liberal domineering.
                        No, it is the United States Constitution that protects individual liberties from the whims of the majority.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gary View Post
                          When it is none of your business, yes. You are welcome to your personal beliefs but when you try to force them on society your action is viewed by the majority as intolerant and a violation of human rights.
                          Hmmmm. Let's see. Who had their belief forced on society? How did that Supreme Court ruling go? Oh yeah. Many states had already ruled against the redefinition of marriage and yet, they had it forced on them. Thanks for saying that the push by the homosexual movement is intolerant and a violation of human rights.

                          Just as no one should force Christians to accept homosexuality within their church walls, Christians should not attempt to extend their non-acceptance beyond their church walls.
                          And what about Christian businesses? What about Sweet Cakes by Melissa? What about the fact that in Canada you can't speak against homosexuality from the pulpit or on the radio and such?

                          So it is inequality to treat a black person and a white person the same?

                          We are all human beings. Our choice of adult life partners (or lovers) should receive equal treatment under the law.
                          I see whites and blacks as equally human, though there are some distinctions, such as I under stand blacks are more prone to a sickle cell condition and such. I'm sure a geneticist could tell more.

                          But we are not talking about races. We are talking about behaviors. Do you consider homosexual sex to be equal to heterosexual sex?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                            Hmmmm. Let's see. Who had their belief forced on society? How did that Supreme Court ruling go? Oh yeah. Many states had already ruled against the redefinition of marriage and yet, they had it forced on them. Thanks for saying that the push by the homosexual movement is intolerant and a violation of human rights.



                            And what about Christian businesses? What about Sweet Cakes by Melissa? What about the fact that in Canada you can't speak against homosexuality from the pulpit or on the radio and such?



                            I see whites and blacks as equally human, though there are some distinctions, such as I under stand blacks are more prone to a sickle cell condition and such. I'm sure a geneticist could tell more.

                            But we are not talking about races. We are talking about behaviors. Do you consider homosexual sex to be equal to heterosexual sex?
                            Under the law, yes.

                            Under the Constitution of the United States, individual liberties are not subject to the whims of majority opinion and are not determined at the ballot box, even when it involves "morality". The scope of individual liberties has over the last two centuries moved away from a limited view of liberty, specifically a "white, land-owning, male" liberty to a liberty truly for ALL citizens. That is why the following "immoral" acts are now legal in the United States because the courts have deemed individual liberty of higher value than majority opinion.

                            ---Non-white citizens are equal to whites, including the right to be in an interracial marriage, under the law.
                            ---women are equal to men under the law.
                            ---persons of same-sex orientation are equal to persons of opposite-sex orientation.

                            None of these individual liberties are going to be reversed, no matter how strongly religious conservatives feel about them.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gary View Post
                              Under the law, yes.
                              I asked you if they think that. Under the law at one point, a slave was 3/5 of a citizen. Was that what he really was or was the law wrong?

                              Under the Constitution of the United States, individual liberties are not subject to the whims of majority opinion and are not determined at the ballot box, even when it involves "morality".
                              Actually, they are. Every law is about morality. We vote on our laws and the people we want to enforce those laws and by the Constitution, states have that right.

                              The scope of individual liberties has over the last two centuries moved away from a limited view of liberty, specifically a "white, land-owning, male" liberty to a liberty truly for ALL citizens. That is why the following "immoral" acts are now legal in the United States because the courts have deemed individual liberty of higher value than majority opinion.
                              We're not talking about citizens here. We're talking about actions.

                              ---Non-white citizens are equal to whites, including the right to be in an interracial marriage, under the law.
                              ---women are equal to men under the law.
                              ---persons of same-sex orientation are equal to persons of opposite-sex orientation.

                              None of these individual liberties are going to be reversed, no matter how strongly religious conservatives feel about them.
                              I don't know any conservatives who oppose any of those.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Gary View Post
                                Pointless to you, maybe, but the majority of your society sees it differently.
                                Originally posted by Gary View Post
                                No, it is the United States Constitution that protects individual liberties from the whims of the majority.


                                Do you ever get tired of contradicting yourself Gary?
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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