Is there a natural language?

[Catholicity]

Perhaps, since it appears, that humans first communicated through body language of sorts....maybe our gestures, facial expressions, dances, fingers, are the natural language.
For example, a baby's cry....its universal, it always means "I need something" perhaps it is at the root. An angry or stern face. A tear of laughter or joy. Could that be a "natural language" of some sort? Just a thought.

[JHardin]

Perhaps, since it appears, that humans first communicated through body language of sorts....maybe our gestures, facial expressions, dances, fingers, are the natural language.
For example, a baby's cry....its universal, it always means "I need something" perhaps it is at the root. An angry or stern face. A tear of laughter or joy. Could that be a "natural language" of some sort? Just a thought.

I listened to this podcast episode about a year ago and your post reminded me of it. Apparently a scientist studying Asian language thinks she has found something along these lines.
http://www.wnyc.org/flashplayer/play...2Fxspf%2F58272

[YourMaster]

There's a bunch of work out there on this, but biologists and linguists aren't completely sure whether the neural wiring that allows for human language evolved as an adaptation for language, or spandrels (other evolutionary processes that are nonadaptive consequences of exapting structures formerly used for other functions). However, the majority view favors adaptation and a common ancestor for language (but beyond that there's numerous theories & the data is pretty obscure).

[greentwiga]

Perhaps, since it appears, that humans first communicated through body language of sorts....maybe our gestures, facial expressions, dances, fingers, are the natural language.
For example, a baby's cry....its universal, it always means "I need something" perhaps it is at the root. An angry or stern face. A tear of laughter or joy. Could that be a "natural language" of some sort? Just a thought.

Even now, there is some debate as to how much of our communication is nonverbal. It is quite high. Still, chimpanzees share this nonverbal to a fair degree, though the verbal language in its complexity is unique to humans.

[Analytic Theist]

I'm a linguistics and philosophy major, so I'll answer the topic's question. Languages can be divided into natural languages and artificial languages. Natural languages are all human languages as a biological feature of the homo sapiens. Artificial languages, like symbolic logic or programming languages, are man made for a specific use e.g. philosophy and computer programming. The term "natural languages" is couched in philosophical and linguistic discourse to differentiate human languages from machine languages, mathematical symbols, etc.

[JHardin]

I'm a linguistics and philosophy major, so I'll answer the topic's question. Languages can be divided into natural languages and artificial languages. Natural languages are all human languages as a biological feature of the homo sapiens. Artificial languages, like symbolic logic or programming languages, are man made for a specific use e.g. philosophy and computer programming. The term "natural languages" is couched in philosophical and linguistic discourse to differentiate human languages from machine languages, mathematical symbols, etc.

I am by no means a linguistics expert, but wouldn't any elaboration of a natural language in essence be artificial? For instance, we use mathematical symbols to express ideas, and we also invent new words and phrases to express ideas. Fundamentally the mathematical symbol and the new word are no different.

So, would natural language only define those languages which aren't artificially perverted?

[Analytic Theist]

I am by no means a linguistics expert, but wouldn't any elaboration of a natural language in essence be artificial? For instance, we use mathematical symbols to express ideas, and we also invent new words and phrases to express ideas. Fundamentally the mathematical symbol and the new word are no different.

So, would natural language only define those languages which aren't artificially perverted?

Coining neologism and adding them to the lexicon doesn't make human languages less natural. Languages are dynamic systems, so they're prone to changes on all linguistic levels.

Here's an analogy: humans can have several means of transportation. Either they can use their legs as natural means, or they can use an automobile as artifical means. Our legs are a natural outgrowth of us as humans, while an automobile isn't found anywhere in nature but must be manufactured for use.

[JHardin]

Coining neologism and adding them to the lexicon doesn't make human languages less natural. Languages are dynamic systems, so they're prone to changes on all linguistic levels.

Here's an analogy: humans can have several means of transportation. Either they can use their legs as natural means, or they can use an automobile as artifical means. Our legs are a natural outgrowth of us as humans, while an automobile isn't found anywhere in nature but must be manufactured for use.

That seems to be comparing apples to oranges. The force behind an automobile is what is artificial. As for language, the force behind all language is the human mind despite whether that language is spoken, written, typed or conveyed by other external means. Language would not be language at all if it didn't have it's origins in the human mind. So to me it seems that all language is natural, they are only differentiated by their means of conveyance.

[Analytic Theist]

That seems to be comparing apples to oranges. The force behind an automobile is what is artificial. As for language, the force behind all language is the human mind despite whether that language is spoken, written, typed or conveyed by other external means. Language would not be language at all if it didn't have it's origins in the human mind. So to me it seems that all language is natural, they are only differentiated by their means of conveyance.

A language is natural if it evolved through natural means outside human control. Artificial languages were made through premeditated human action. Please learn this universally accepted distinction before we die of old age.

[shunyadragon]

A language is natural if it evolved through natural means outside human control. Artificial languages were made through premeditated human action. Please learn this universally accepted distinction before we die of old age.

I have some interest in Linguistic Anthropology in my long study of the Jade Culture of China, and personal study of the evolution of primitive cultures. Natural languages evolved intimately with the function and purpose of primitive from two aspects, the female and male roles in culture. The female roles evolved languages centered on raising and care of children, safety and local gathering of food. The male language centered aspects of life such as hunting, and hierarchial and territorial conflict. In the late Neolithic trade became an important aspect of language and contributed greatly to the evolution of written languages. I believe over time these evolved into the languages we have today.

There are interesting attributes of the Chinese language that reflect ancient roots clearly. Many family names actually reflect infant sounds such as mama, gaga, and baba. Names of animals often mimic animal sounds. The written language retained its primitive picture theme, which is very revealing about the evolution of culture and language in China.

[Neb Hu Hika]

Mox discipuli se liberabunt.