IE is dangerous?

[Kelp]

As Jack Bauer's blog says, This is serious. Internet explorer ruins this site and many others. Change now.
Remember: Friends don't let friends use Internet Exporer. Browse responsibly.


How is IE dangerous to websites exactly? I never really cared before which browser I used and whether it wasn't the "best" one or not. But if my IE is really destroying people's property, I'll switch. Please advise.

[Dee Dee Warren]

IE is causing web-designers to have to design their websites not as productively or aesthetically the way that they would choose because IE refuses to render it properly.

Why do I have my author index split into two sections on the PreteristSite? Because IE refuses it as one page - no other browser does.

Why did I have to insert different codes for my background image using CSS? Because IE will not render it properly.

Why did I have to choose an inferior aesthetic way to do my listings? Because IE made it look like a huge friggin' turd when no other browser did.

Sites are not as productive or well-designed as they could be, including THIS site (there were several features we wanted to implement - but nope IE wouldn't let them work) and that is how it is dumbing down and uglifying the Internet.

Which is why my site has this disclaimer:

This site best viewed on a non-sucky browser such as Firefox.

[Kelp]

Oh. Well that sucks. I'll try to switch to Firefox.

[Johnny MacManky]

I just downloaded Firefox the other day. I'm really used to AOL's own browser as I've used it since I started using teh web... but I'm gonna give Firefox a try.

edit to add... I've opened Firefox and am using it now to do this... tWeb looks pretty much the same as it does on AOL.

You can get Firefox from http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/

[Bill the Cat]

I've seen Firefox screw up displays of many a site too...

[Bill the Cat]

http://www.clagnut.com/blog/1854/

Have fun!

[Dee Dee Warren]

I just downloaded Firefox the other day. I'm really used to AOL's own browser as I've used it since I started using teh web... but I'm gonna give Firefox a try.

edit to add... I've opened Firefox and am using it now to do this... tWeb looks pretty much the same as it does on AOL.

You can get Firefox from http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/

It looks the same because we had to dumb down the design to accomodate IE.

[Dee Dee Warren]

http://www.clagnut.com/blog/1854/

Have fun!

Wow, did anyone claim perfection for FF? And specifically on a Mac?

And you do know that post is over a year old right?

ALL browsers will have some glitches - I don't know Bill if you ever hand-coded a web page, but if you have, I am relatively certain you would despise IE. If you think my spite of IE has to do with me now being on Apple - think again. I have hated it for five years now, and once I started my own site, it has turned into deep loathing.

[Dee Dee Warren]

For my koolaid site, I didn't even bother checking in IE. Not my target audience. In fact I wish I could have a screen pop up with anyone with IE browsing it that says "Get a real browser and return. And buy a Mac for Pete's sake."

[Bill the Cat]

Wow, did anyone claim perfection for FF? And specifically on a Mac?

From the references here and elsewhere (i.e. personal sites), the implication is that Firefox actually hung the moon.

And you do know that post is over a year old right?

yes, but it still shows a good point. All browsers have shortcomings. Everyone hates IE because it is the big boy on the block.

ALL browsers will have some glitches - I don't know Bill if you ever hand-coded a web page, but if you have, I am relatively certain you would despise IE.

I have hand coded pages and IE does just fine. I have also used Dreamweaver and Frontpage to code sites. The only time I've had any major formatting issues was with an animated gif inside a table in IE6. Ie works great for everything I need it for.

If you think my spite of IE has to do with me now being on Apple - think again. I have hated it for five years now, and once I started my own site, it has turned into deep loathing.

Meh, I understand people have different reasons for despising things. I can't stand peas. They are green and slimy. But my daughter and my son love them. It's a taste thing, I get that. But It irks me when people act like IE is the devil and Firefox came from the fingertips of God. I don't have a horse in this race, so I have no idea why it irks me, but it does.

I'll go back to my hole...

[Kelp]

What other alternatives are free? Opera, Safari, and Quicksliver you have to buy, right?

[Jnthn]

The main problems I have with IE are it's integration with the Explorer process and other aspects of the OS, such as the HTML help renderer. MS have also been fast and loose with the HTML and CSS standards which is a pain for designers. On the latter point I speak primarily from the perspective of having to support heterogeneous browser environments for developers.

However, the main reason I've moved to FF is that IE7 is freakin' ugly and counterintuitive. IE8 looks promising though

J

[Jnthn]

What other alternatives are free? Opera, Safari, and Quicksliver you have to buy, right?

Opera's free-gratis now. Not sure about the others though.

J

[Dee Dee Warren]

From the references here and elsewhere (i.e. personal sites), the implication is that Firefox actually hung the moon.

There were none such on this thread. I seriously doubt anyone here at this site would claim that FF is perfect. Cir doesn't even use FF.

yes, but it still shows a good point. All browsers have shortcomings.

Care to prove the sky is blue next?

Everyone hates IE because it is the big boy on the block.

That is utterly and completely FALSE. I just explained why I hate IE. Why in the world would you make a statement like that right after I personally explained why I personally hate IE.

I have hand coded pages and IE does just fine. I have also used Dreamweaver and Frontpage to code sites. The only time I've had any major formatting issues was with an animated gif inside a table in IE6. Ie works great for everything I need it for.

You are in the minority. You do know that this very site has less features because of IE? And let me give you an example of what IE cannot do at least at the time of that site's entry (which is when I was designing the PreteristSite which you see uses the technique on this page) -

http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/co...iral/demo.html

I'm not seeing any seamless compositing!

Then I'm willing to bet that you're using Internet Explorer for Windows (any version), or possibly Opera (version 6 or earlier). Neither of these browsers properly support background-attachment: fixed for elements other than body. In the case of both, images are fixed with respect to the elements that contain them, not the browser window, which is not what CSS1 defines background-attachment: fixed to mean, although browsers are allowed to ignore fixed if they stick to CSS1 (CSS2 requires its implementation for conformance). And yes, this page uses a strict DOCTYPE, so IE6 is in "strict mode." I guess when Microsoft claims 100% CSS1 compliance, they're referring to the CSS1 core (a reduced subset of CSS1) instead of the entirety of the CSS1 specification. It tends to make me wonder how limited or flawed their "full support" is for other key open specifications, like HTML and DOM.

CSS on IE - flatly SUCKS EGGS. Completely. I know from experience. And it isn't from "hating the big guy on the block." That is an absolutely retarded reason to hate something.

[Bill the Cat]

There were none such on this thread. I seriously doubt anyone here at this site would claim that FF is perfect.

But they WILL call it a "Real Browser^TM" like IE isn't one.

Cir doesn't even use FF.

You realize Cir is weird though, right?

Care to prove the sky is blue next?

http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html

That is utterly and completely FALSE. I just explained why I hate IE. Why in the world would you make a statement like that right after I personally explained why I personally hate IE.

It was a generalized statement. Some dislike IE for aesthetic reasons or some bias against non-open source products. Oh sure, you'll see the various technical issues thrown in there, but the bulk gripe about security holes (a function of IE being the most used browser).

but just google "IE Sucks" and see what I mean...

You are in the minority. You do know that this very site has less features because of IE?

No I didn't know that. But I do know that when I open 2 tabs in Firefox, it uses 140 MB of my system RAM while IE7 only uses 45 MB. What good are extra features if I have to spend more money on RAM to keep my system from grinding to a halt?

And let me give you an example of what IE cannot do at least at the time of that site's entry (which is when I was designing the PreteristSite which you see uses the technique on this page) -

http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/co...iral/demo.html

I'm not seeing any seamless compositing!

Then I'm willing to bet that you're using Internet Explorer for Windows (any version), or possibly Opera (version 6 or earlier). Neither of these browsers properly support background-attachment: fixed for elements other than body. In the case of both, images are fixed with respect to the elements that contain them, not the browser window, which is not what CSS1 defines background-attachment: fixed to mean, although browsers are allowed to ignore fixed if they stick to CSS1 (CSS2 requires its implementation for conformance). And yes, this page uses a strict DOCTYPE, so IE6 is in "strict mode." I guess when Microsoft claims 100% CSS1 compliance, they're referring to the CSS1 core (a reduced subset of CSS1) instead of the entirety of the CSS1 specification. It tends to make me wonder how limited or flawed their "full support" is for other key open specifications, like HTML and DOM.

CSS on IE - flatly SUCKS EGGS. Completely. I know from experience. And it isn't from "hating the big guy on the block." That is an absolutely retarded reason to hate something.

But it's there. People DO hate Microsoft for that reason, logical or not.

Your Preterist site looks fine on both my IE6 at work and my IE7 at home. But then again, I'm a content guy, not an aesthetics guy. I could care less about seamless composting