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Shalom!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
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Jesus was not the messiah
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostActually, Messiah means 'anointed', not king. Kings were anointed, but so were priests and even some of the prophets.
robrecht
Yes that's correct - Messiah does mean "anointed" and also a prophet can be anointed, like you said, as well as, priests. However, the question is "who" or "what" prophet will testify and declare the messiah to the people and before the Sanhedrin (the great). Also, the main responsibilities for what the Messiah will do has always been a debate. Most of the criteria on the messiah date back to Samuel, as a Judge and a prophet - (and some sources indicate a priest - For the Deuteronomistic Historians, Samuel was extension of Moses and continuing Moses’ function as a prophet, judge, and a priest which made historical Samuel uncertain). So there were "no" specifics outlines to all this.
So how will the Messiah be identified - that's what the future prophet will decide.....(6 Then Samuel said to the people, “It is the Lord who appointed Moses and Aaron and brought your ancestors up out of Egypt. 7 Now then, stand here, because I am going to confront you with evidence before the Lord as to all the righteous acts performed by the Lord for you and your ancestors. Another example: It was Samuel who chose Saul and David - 6 The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. 7 Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.). Also, when identified, the messiah, and as he becomes anointed, will have (and accordingly) changed into a different person. Also, in the same gesture, God, when the twelve tribes return, they will be given a "new" heart... Jeremiah 24:7 "6'For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them again to this land; and I will build them up and not overthrow them, and I will plant them and not pluck them up. 7'I will give them a heart to know Me, for I am the LORD; and they will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart."
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Originally posted by Trekkie View PostLet's face it, the guy wasn't even *a* messiah (i.e. a king), never mind *THE* messiah. That right there debunks the entire Christian religion. Jesus was a carpenter. At no point was he ever a king.
See you all in synagogue next week.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostActually, Messiah means 'anointed', not king. Kings were anointed, but so were priests and even some of the prophets.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostConsidering he's gone nearly two months without responding, I'm guessing it was just a drive-by.
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Originally posted by Trekkie View PostThe messiah foreseen by the prophets would be a king. Jesus was not a king, he was a peasant, so he could not have been the king in question. Try again.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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He's just trolling, Rob. But give it a shot - he did come back so maybe there is some hope for him."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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David was a shepherd. Becoming king in the earthly sense isn't always hereditary."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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After David, it is. G-d established the throne of his kingdom forever.Last edited by Omniskeptical; 05-28-2014, 03:36 PM.
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Originally posted by Omniskeptical View PostIt didn't last beyond Israel's last days. really...?Last edited by Avraham Ibn Ezra; 05-28-2014, 03:39 PM.אברהם אבן עזרא
Avraham Ibn Ezra
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Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View PostAfter David, it is. G-d established the throne of his kingdom forever.
2) I was answering his specific issue - which was Jesus' career path which is a non-issue for human succession."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Teallaura View Post1) That doesn't matter - Jesus was a descendant of David's.
2) I was answering his specific issue - which was Jesus' career path which is a non-issue for human succession.אברהם אבן עזרא
Avraham Ibn Ezra
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Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View PostSo were a lot of people in the first century.
Originally posted by Avraham Ibn EzraThat particular argument made by Trekkie isn't a strong argument. It is perhaps the worst I have ever heard. Like you said a chosen profession does not disqualify a person from being king. Other things do that are more important."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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