I'm not trying to ask this as a challenge; I'm genuinely curious, because I'm having trouble finding them. Whenever I try to look up information about Jewish apologetics, all I ever seem to find is arguments about why Christianity is wrong, e.g. claims that Jesus could not have been the Messiah, arguments that the New Testament isn't compatible with the Old Testament, and so on. But those aren't pro-Judaism arguments; they're anti-Christian arguments, which is something very different. I could just be looking in the wrong places, so I'm asking where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?
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Shalom!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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What arguments are there FOR Judaism?
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostI'm not trying to ask this as a challenge; I'm genuinely curious, because I'm having trouble finding them. Whenever I try to look up information about Jewish apologetics, all I ever seem to find is arguments about why Christianity is wrong, e.g. claims that Jesus could not have been the Messiah, arguments that the New Testament isn't compatible with the Old Testament, and so on. But those aren't pro-Judaism arguments; they're anti-Christian arguments, which is something very different. I could just be looking in the wrong places, so I'm asking where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?
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Originally posted by Terraceth View Post...where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK0tpvcIRhU
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Originally posted by siam View PostJewish monotheism (Shema) is already affirmed by Christians (at least, that is what I understand when Christians claim they are "monotheists")...so pro-monotheism arguments would probably be found against Atheists?....Here is a video of Chief Rabbi J Sacks with Richard Dawkins...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK0tpvcIRhU
The problem with Judaism is that presents a rather limited narrow cultural view of God relating only to the Jewish people. I have similar objections for Christianity, Islam and other ancient religions in that they fail to address a universal relationship between God and humanity.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThere is a relationship between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, but the beliefs of one cannot be used to justify the others or any one religion.
The problem with Judaism is that presents a rather limited narrow cultural view of God relating only to the Jewish people. I have similar objections for Christianity, Islam and other ancient religions in that they fail to address a universal relationship between God and humanity.
I do not think Jews have a narrow view of God---as I understand it, the Jewish G-d is not constrained by gender, ethnicity or such factors...it is the universal creative "force". But yes, the Halaka (law) is for Jews only....therefore, some ethics such as the immorality of charging usury apply to transactions with other Jews only...and not to non-Jews...?.....This idea is similar in Islam as well, in that Sharia is for Muslims only but Non-Muslims can also use it if they wish to because the ethics/morality is based on universal principles...So, charging interest (Riba) is discouraged even if the the person to whom it is charged is not a Muslim...(Though, in the Western capitalist system there is not much option...because the laws are based on an interest system.....which is why "Islamic finance or Sharia compliant finance/economics is being debated....)
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I was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.
The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.
Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:
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Originally posted by psstein View PostI was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.
The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.
Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWe have something close to a complete text in the Dead Sea Scrolls. On the other hand, the DSS bear witness to different rescensions even then.
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Originally posted by psstein View PostThe DSS do not have complete copies in the huge majority of cases. For example, of the 54 chapters of Genesis, we have only 34 in the DSS.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by psstein View PostI was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.
The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.
Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostConsidering the history of the text of Genesis and Exodus I have no reason to believe the accounts were accurate and historical, nor were there 600,000 witnesses.
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Originally posted by psstein View PostI agree. The Pentateuch is (largely) fictitious. There may be some historical memory and information behind the narrative, but the nature of the sources doesn't allow for any real historical reconstruction.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWhen a document (Deuteronomy) is modeled after a Hittite suzerain treaty current 1,000 years before critics tend to think it was written, I take what critics say with a large grain of salt. I think there's a lot more historicity there than you imagine.
I'm also wondering if you're including the Deuteronomistic history under Deuteronomy. I tend to see Kings/Judges/Samuel as being historically based.
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Originally posted by psstein View PostDeuteronomy seems to better parallel neo-Assyrian treaties of the 7th century BC, rather than the Hittite treaties. I'll look into it a little further.
I'm also wondering if you're including the Deuteronomistic history under Deuteronomy. I tend to see Kings/Judges/Samuel as being historically based.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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