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Thread: What arguments are there FOR Judaism?

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    tWebber
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    What arguments are there FOR Judaism?

    I'm not trying to ask this as a challenge; I'm genuinely curious, because I'm having trouble finding them. Whenever I try to look up information about Jewish apologetics, all I ever seem to find is arguments about why Christianity is wrong, e.g. claims that Jesus could not have been the Messiah, arguments that the New Testament isn't compatible with the Old Testament, and so on. But those aren't pro-Judaism arguments; they're anti-Christian arguments, which is something very different. I could just be looking in the wrong places, so I'm asking where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    I'm not trying to ask this as a challenge; I'm genuinely curious, because I'm having trouble finding them. Whenever I try to look up information about Jewish apologetics, all I ever seem to find is arguments about why Christianity is wrong, e.g. claims that Jesus could not have been the Messiah, arguments that the New Testament isn't compatible with the Old Testament, and so on. But those aren't pro-Judaism arguments; they're anti-Christian arguments, which is something very different. I could just be looking in the wrong places, so I'm asking where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?
    The one and only true God, creator of heaven and earth, is the one who did lead the children of Israel out of Egypt to reveal himself at mount Sinai.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    ...where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?
    Jewish monotheism (Shema) is already affirmed by Christians (at least, that is what I understand when Christians claim they are "monotheists")...so pro-monotheism arguments would probably be found against Atheists?....Here is a video of Chief Rabbi J Sacks with Richard Dawkins...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK0tpvcIRhU

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Jewish monotheism (Shema) is already affirmed by Christians (at least, that is what I understand when Christians claim they are "monotheists")...so pro-monotheism arguments would probably be found against Atheists?....Here is a video of Chief Rabbi J Sacks with Richard Dawkins...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK0tpvcIRhU
    There is a relationship between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, but the beliefs of one cannot be used to justify the others or any one religion.

    The problem with Judaism is that presents a rather limited narrow cultural view of God relating only to the Jewish people. I have similar objections for Christianity, Islam and other ancient religions in that they fail to address a universal relationship between God and humanity.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    There is a relationship between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, but the beliefs of one cannot be used to justify the others or any one religion.

    The problem with Judaism is that presents a rather limited narrow cultural view of God relating only to the Jewish people. I have similar objections for Christianity, Islam and other ancient religions in that they fail to address a universal relationship between God and humanity.
    Jews may or may not be "cultural", but I think it would be incorrect for a Muslim to be "only cultural" unless one was a hypocrite...since Islam is a set of presumptions (Tawheed) upon which a whole "system"(ethics/morality, laws etc) is constructed.

    I do not think Jews have a narrow view of God---as I understand it, the Jewish G-d is not constrained by gender, ethnicity or such factors...it is the universal creative "force". But yes, the Halaka (law) is for Jews only....therefore, some ethics such as the immorality of charging usury apply to transactions with other Jews only...and not to non-Jews...?.....This idea is similar in Islam as well, in that Sharia is for Muslims only but Non-Muslims can also use it if they wish to because the ethics/morality is based on universal principles...So, charging interest (Riba) is discouraged even if the the person to whom it is charged is not a Muslim...(Though, in the Western capitalist system there is not much option...because the laws are based on an interest system.....which is why "Islamic finance or Sharia compliant finance/economics is being debated....)

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    tWebber
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    I was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.

    The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.

    Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:


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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psstein View Post
    I was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.

    The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.

    Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:

    We have something close to a complete text in the Dead Sea Scrolls. On the other hand, the DSS bear witness to different rescensions even then.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    We have something close to a complete text in the Dead Sea Scrolls. On the other hand, the DSS bear witness to different rescensions even then.
    The DSS do not have complete copies in the huge majority of cases. For example, of the 54 chapters of Genesis, we have only 34 in the DSS.

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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psstein View Post
    The DSS do not have complete copies in the huge majority of cases. For example, of the 54 chapters of Genesis, we have only 34 in the DSS.
    No, but what we have from the DSS is pretty significant.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psstein View Post
    I was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.

    The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.

    Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:

    Considering the history of the text of Genesis and Exodus I have no reason to believe the accounts were accurate and historical, nor were there 600,000 witnesses.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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