Did God create logic? Or is logic further evidence of God’s existence?

[Sparko]

Contingent upon God.

Does that mean God is contingent on Existence? After all without existence, God would not exist.

[Meh Gerbil]

Does that mean God is contingent on Existence? After all without existence, God would not exist.

If something doesn't have substance within time/space we say that it doesn't exist.
You're jumping back and forth between eternity and the temporal and with little or no distinction.

But go ahead and tell me about existence with no space, no time, and no physicality....

I'll bet you $150.00 Jorge dollars you cannot express existence without those things.

[Sparko]

If something doesn't have substance within time/space we say that it doesn't exist.
You're jumping back and forth between eternity and the temporal and with little or no distinction.

But go ahead and tell me about existence with no space, no time, and no physicality....

I'll bet you $150.00 Jorge dollars you cannot express existence without those things.

God.

although according to your definition of existence, God didn't exist until he created time and space. and I suppose "love" doesn't exist either. or math.

[Meh Gerbil]

God.

although according to your definition of existence, God didn't exist until he created time and space. and I suppose "love" doesn't exist either. or math.

My point would be that 'existence' is something that we only understand in the context of space and time.
The same holds true for any concept we have of math.
Postulating beyond our context into truths that exist outside space/time is ridiculous, IMHO.

[JimL]

God.

although according to your definition of existence, God didn't exist until he created time and space. and I suppose "love" doesn't exist either. or math.

Did math exist before god created. If so, to what did it apply?

[37818]

God is the uncaused existence - His Hebrew Name can be translated - Self-Existent.

Space-Time and matter are created existence. The Uncause-Cause of all created and eternal other uncreated things, such as logic and math are do to God's uncreated Logos (John 1:1-3, 10).

[Tassman]

God is the uncaused existence - His Hebrew Name can be translated - Self-Existent.

Space-Time and matter are created existence. The Uncause-Cause of all created and eternal other uncreated things, such as logic and math are do to God's uncreated Logos (John 1:1-3, 10).

God is a failed hypothesis; there is no evidence for the existence of a deity and while not impossible it's improbable. It's a pre-scientific notion which attempts to explain what is otherwise inexplicable. Science does it better.

[Sparko]

Did math exist before god created. If so, to what did it apply?

math isn't a "thing" - it's a way to describe numerical relationships.

If there was no time, how could there be a "before" God created?
But let's ignore that for a minute (see what I did there?)

before God created, there was still God. Let me ask how many Gods were there? ...One.

oops. That's math.

[37818]

God is a failed hypothesis; there is no evidence for the existence of a deity and while not impossible it's improbable. It's a pre-scientific notion which attempts to explain what is otherwise inexplicable. Science does it better.

It would seem that you fail to want to comprehend that there is an uncaused existence which is the identity for God. So you choose not to acknowlege it as God. Your choice.

[Meh Gerbil]

math isn't a "thing" - it's a way to describe numerical relationships.

If there was no time, how could there be a "before" God created?
But let's ignore that for a minute (see what I did there?)

before God created, there was still God. Let me ask how many Gods were there? ...One.

oops. That's math.

You're posing this as a question and answer.
How many Gods? One.
With no time there would be no sequence like that.

And that would be just one of the problems with your answer.

[Sparko]

God is the uncaused existence - His Hebrew Name can be translated - Self-Existent.

Space-Time and matter are created existence. The Uncause-Cause of all created and eternal other uncreated things, such as logic and math are do to God's uncreated Logos (John 1:1-3, 10).

they are not things that are created. They are merely concepts to explain reality as it is.

Is "honesty" a thing, or a a word, a concept to describe some characteristic? Did God create honesty, or is he merely honest? It is something that describes an attribute of God. God didn't create honesty. He didn't one day say, "Ya know, I think I need to be truthful, so I will first make this thing called truth, and then I will create this other thing called honesty, and then I will be it."

No. And neither did he create logic, or math. They are just concepts we use to describe reality. Since God is real, we can use them to describe him too. He didn't create them, they don't even exist as "things" - just like using math we can say that God is one. And always has been. It doesn't mean God created the concept of one. It just is. We discovered the concept, but it always has been there, and has always applied to God, even before the first man figured out how to count.

[Meh Gerbil]

they are not things that are created. They are merely concepts to explain reality as it is.

If reality doesn't exist (as we understand it) then the concepts used to describe that reality (as we understand it) would not exist either.

[Meh Gerbil]

Christianbookworm and Chrawnus,
If you don't stop peppering Sparko's inane posts with Amens I'm going to hunt both of you down and pull your panties up over your heads.

Meh Gerbil

[Sparko]

If reality doesn't exist (as we understand it) then the concepts used to describe that reality (as we understand it) would not exist either.

correct. but for that to happen God would not exist. And there would be nobody to actually grasp anything conceptual. But as a mental exercise, imagine that God never existed, and therefore there was no universe, nothing at all. How many Gods would exist? Zero. How many universes exist? Zero. So you see? You can still use math to describe a concept where there is nothing. No God, no universe. Still math can describe it. It would still be true and real that there are zero Gods, zero universes, and zero anything. Math would still be real. Even if there were no one there to discover it.

[Christianbookworm]

Christianbookworm and Chrawnus,
If you don't stop peppering Sparko's inane posts with Amens I'm going to hunt both of you down and pull your panties up over your heads.

Meh Gerbil

You don't know where I live.