Did God create logic? Or is logic further evidence of God’s existence?

[Meh Gerbil]

Ohhhkay.

[Sparko]

Can you come up with something God didn't create?

logic.

[seer]

logic.

That is because God is logic, as much as He is love, just or Holy.

[Christianbookworm]

logic.

Logic reminds me of Logos. The Word was with God and the Word was God. Jesus would be the ultimate master of logic. He is wisdom and logic. No one can out smart Him!

[Sparko]

Logic reminds me of Logos. The Word was with God and the Word was God. Jesus would be the ultimate master of logic. He is wisdom and logic. No one can out smart Him!

The word logic comes from the greek word logos.

[Sparko]

fyi
http://philosophy.hku.hk/think/logic/whatislogic.php

[Carrikature]

Did God create logic? Or is logic further evidence of God’s existence?

This a common claim by many Christian apologists. Is this really a valid claim? Can these apologists back up these claims without appealing to a circular reasoning logic?

More to follow.

Please provide some links. I've never heard any such claim for all that you've portrayed it as 'common'.

[firstfloor]

Did God create logic? Or is logic further evidence of God’s existence?

This a common claim by many Christian apologists. Is this really a valid claim? Can these apologists back up these claims without appealing to a circular reasoning logic?

More to follow.

Logic is proof of God’s non existence. You see, logic and truth are functions of the unfailing regularity of nature. If there was a God, of the sort that people pray to, He would interfere in the natural world and change things that otherwise would not change – the results would be illogical. This never happens. Logic and truth are safe in nature’s hands, in fact, they are guaranteed by nature because nothing else is possible.

[Christianbookworm]

How can God have created logic? Doesn't wisdom use logic?

[shunyadragon]

Please provide some links. I've never heard any such claim for all that you've portrayed it as 'common'.

Source: http://tasc-creationscience.org/content/foundation-logic-nature-god

The Foundation of Logic in the Nature of God

“I propose to argue that unless God is back of everything you cannot find meaning in anything . . .”

“I hold that belief in God is not merely as reasonable as other belief; it is not a little more probable, or infinitely more probable, than unbelief. I hold rather that unless you believe in God you can logically believe in nothing else.”

The above quotations by the late reformed apologist Cornelius Van Til explain the need for God to be at the foundation of human thought. This includes logic.

Everyone thinks according to the laws of logic. We live in an orderly and rational universe. It is impossible to use coherent reasoning without logic. As the late apologist and successor of Van Til, Greg Bahnsen, explains, “The laws of logic are not laws of thought, but presuppositions of (coherent) thinking.”

People rarely stop to ask, however, why the laws of logic are true. Jason Lisle of Answers in Genesis writes, “A rational worldview must provide the preconditions of intelligibility.” According to Lisle, these must be affirmed “Before we can know anything about the universe.” These include logic, uniformity of nature, morals, and the general reliability of our senses and memory. Without these preconditions we cannot know that our thoughts and observations are correct, and if they are not reliable then we cannot be sure about anything.

An atheist might argue that belief in God is logically incoherent or that faith is opposed to logic. Before such challenges can claim any validity, however, one must first ask what the basis of logic is. How does one account for laws of logic in a chance universe with no mind behind it? These laws are immaterial, and they are not empirically verifiable entities. No one can touch the laws of logic or examine them visually.

Could they be human conventions? If that is the case, however, then they are based on culture and popular opinion and therefore cannot provide a universal and objective standard. They could vary from culture to culture like driving on the right side of the road. Rational debate would be impossible because each party could have its own standard. One could even argue that meaningful communication of any kind would be impossible under such conditions.

Someone may argue that the laws of logic are products of evolution— rules that have been preserved by natural selection. This is also an inadequate basis. According to Lisle, . . .

© Copyright Original Source

[shunyadragon]

Source: http://www.thinkchristianly.org/is-god-subject-to-human-logic/

Is God Subject to Human Logic?

“Without God, nothing could have existence. God is the basis of all logic in reality and he is in no way inferior to logic. Logic comes from God, not God from logic. But when it comes to how we know things, logic is the basis of all thought, and it must come before any thought about anything, including God. For example, I need a map before I can get to Washington, D.C. But Washington must exist before the map can help me get there. Even so, we use logic first to come to know God, but God exists first before we can know him.”—Norman Geisler

“When people say that God need not behave “logically,” they are using the term in a loose sense to mean “the sensible thing from my point of view.” Often God does not act in ways that people understand or judge to be what they would do in the circumstances. But God never behaves illogically in the proper sense. He does not violate in His being or thought the fundamental laws of logic.”—J.P. Moreland

God is the ground of logic; it is part of his nature and character. And God always acts consistently with his nature.

© Copyright Original Source

- See more at: http://www.thinkchristianly.org/is-g....kDXpUBzR.dpuf

[Sparko]

Source: http://www.thinkchristianly.org/is-god-subject-to-human-logic/

Is God Subject to Human Logic?

“Without God, nothing could have existence. God is the basis of all logic in reality and he is in no way inferior to logic. Logic comes from God, not God from logic. But when it comes to how we know things, logic is the basis of all thought, and it must come before any thought about anything, including God. For example, I need a map before I can get to Washington, D.C. But Washington must exist before the map can help me get there. Even so, we use logic first to come to know God, but God exists first before we can know him.”—Norman Geisler

“When people say that God need not behave “logically,” they are using the term in a loose sense to mean “the sensible thing from my point of view.” Often God does not act in ways that people understand or judge to be what they would do in the circumstances. But God never behaves illogically in the proper sense. He does not violate in His being or thought the fundamental laws of logic.”—J.P. Moreland

God is the ground of logic; it is part of his nature and character. And God always acts consistently with his nature.

© Copyright Original Source

- See more at: http://www.thinkchristianly.org/is-g....kDXpUBzR.dpuf

yeah.. he is saying not that God created logic, but that logic is part of God's nature, like love and honesty. It is a description of how logic is not a thing to be created. Saying God is logical, means he is rational, makes sense, is consistent. It is not saying God created some "laws" called logic.

Saying God created logic is like saying God created honesty. Honesty isn't a THING. It is a description of a characteristic that God embodies. It has always existed because God has always existed. He didn't create it. There wasn't some time where God wasn't honest. And there wasn't a time where God wasn't a logical, rational being.

[Meh Gerbil]

How can God have created logic? Doesn't wisdom use logic?

I think offering theories about what God created or didn't create in eternity past is an exercise in futility.

When I claim God created logic I mean "the framework of rational thought in which man's minds operate".
This would be similar to His creation of time which would be "the framework of space that our physical bodies require."

The point of contention with my Christian brethren here is that I don't believe God is any more beholden to logic (man's mind framework) than he is to space/time (man's physical framework).

Seer and other assorted hell bound heretics want to elevate logic to the level of love and make it an eternal thingy. What they miss is that the love we have available to us is probably 'love lite', a downgrade of love that is accessible (and entirely adequate) to mankind. We have the 'Love for Dummies' version and we are probably incapable of understanding love the way the Trinity understands and experiences love. Never fear, what we have is more than enough.

If you need to know anything else just ask me.
Everyone else here will lead you astray.

[Sparko]

I think offering theories about what God created or didn't create in eternity past is an exercise in futility.

When I claim God created logic I mean "the framework of rational thought in which man's minds operate".
This would be similar to His creation of time which would be "the framework of space that our physical bodies require."

The point of contention with my Christian brethren here is that I don't believe God is any more beholden to logic (man's mind framework) than he is to space/time (man's physical framework).

Seer and other assorted hell bound heretics want to elevate logic to the level of love and make it an eternal thingy. What they miss is that the love we have available to us is probably 'love lite', a downgrade of love that is accessible (and entirely adequate) to mankind. We have the 'Love for Dummies' version and we are probably incapable of understanding love the way the Trinity understands and experiences love. Never fear, what we have is more than enough.

If you need to know anything else just ask me.
Everyone else here will lead you astray.

So if God made us irrational, does that mean that logic wouldn't still exist? That if there were one apple sitting on a table and another were added, that there would not then be two apples? Or that the apple could not be a cow at the same time? Do things like that require humans to even exist? No. Logic is independent of our minds or even our existence.

Can there be a God and no God at the same time and in the same way? No. Therefore Logic is not something God made up. it is something that IS. As long as God has existed, so has logic.

[Meh Gerbil]

So if God made us irrational, does that mean that logic wouldn't still exist? That if there were one apple sitting on a table and another were added, that there would not then be two apples? Or that the apple could not be a cow at the same time? Do things like that require humans to even exist? No. Logic is independent of our minds or even our existence.

Can a human being exist with no space?
Nope.

Can God exist without space?
Yes.

God isn't limited by the physical framework He built for us.
All I'm claiming here is that He also isn't limited by the mental framework He built for us.

Just as Jesus Christ stepped into time/space and limited His divinity to communicate with us so also did He step into the logical/rational framework and limited His divinity to communicate with us. It is nearly effortless to illustrate this: All logical arguments (as we understand them) are dependent upon time. The classic logical syllogism is a couple of premises followed by a conclusion - without time (a sequence) the fundamental laws of logic wouldn't even apply.