Originally posted by Adrift
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Poll: The word of God is inerrant.
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"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostAs soon as we talk about ICBI, Geisler becomes central to the issue of this thread.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostDon't you think the latter definition puts us in a rather unfortunate position with skeptics?
I cannot blame a skeptic for reading that definition as: "We believe the Bible is immune to fallacy or liability to error in all matters that cannot be tested via the scientific method."
One problem obvious here is that there are too many different versions of inerrancy and infallibility for there to be any unity of vision among Christians.Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-02-2016, 03:47 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhy? Is the 1978 statement wrong? Did Geisler make changes? The topic of this thread is whether or not one believes in Biblical inerrency.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostIf you'd like to know what really makes Meh Gerbil angry it is the tendency of humanity to constantly attempt to place people/objects between the believer and Jesus Christ. From one branch of Christianity with its ridiculous icons and religious sites....
You're welcome.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostI can no longer support ICBI. It has been used too long to bludgeon good evangelicals like Mike Licona and I think it has built in a bias towards dispensationalism and such. It's reputation has been tarnished by Geisler. I think we need a new statement and this time with more actual scholars than before. Many on the list of ICBI signers aren't scholars at all.
The accusation of bludgeoning. That is harsh. If some or any of the content of that statement is not true or is not right that is what needs to be addressed.
That statement of inerrancy was framed and written by Dr. R. C. Sproul, Geisler was an editor.
The following is link to a commentary written by Sproul and Geisler: http://www.isca-apologetics.org/site...0Inerrancy.pdf. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhat was the disagreement over between Geisler and Licona?
The accusation of bludgeoning. That is harsh. If some or any of the content of that statement is not true or is not right that is what needs to be addressed.
That statement of inerrancy was framed and written by Dr. R. C. Sproul, Geisler was an editor.
The following is link to a commentary written by Sproul and Geisler: http://www.isca-apologetics.org/site...0Inerrancy.pdf
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI appreciate the shout out, but next time, say "intercessory prayers to Mary and the saints" instead of "icons." Icons of Christ draw my attention TO him, not away.
That said, your walk is your own and may the Lord bless you in it.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI believe all versions of inerrant beliefs and infallibility concerning the text of the Bible will fail as far as skeptics go including myself. The history of the text of the Bible does not warrant these claims.
One problem obvious here is that there are too many different versions of inerrancy and infallibility for there to be any unity of vision among Christians.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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I think the use of the term "bludgeoning" is entirely appropriate when people's jobs and academic reputations have been destroyed over such wrangling.
I also think "inerrancy" as a concept dies a death of a thousand qualifications."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI respect you Pig, I really do; however, I'll forever oppose the baggage Christianity has picked up over the centuries.YMMVYBMV.That said, your walk is your own and may the Lord bless you in it.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostSo you're not Norman Geisler, posting incognito?
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI believe there is. He mentions the Statement throughout the website, and specifically in the top border with a link to "The Statement".
Unless I'm missing something I think by "affirm" Dr. Geisler is simply using the standard definition of the word: "to state or assert positively; maintain as true:" "to express agreement with or commitment to; uphold; support:". It doesn't occur to me while reading the word "affirm" in context that Geisler is defining it more broadly in the sense you're asking about. I'm not even really sure how that would work exactly.
It looks like the Defending Inerrancy website is mainly directed to Evangelical Protestants, and since the issue is between Evangelical Protestants, it's probably a safe bet that a Protestant position is what's in mind. But specifically, Article I of the Chicago Statement reads:
WE AFFIRM: that the Holy Scriptures are to be received as the authoritative Word of God.
WE DENY: that the Scriptures receive their authority from the Church, tradition, or any other human source.
While recognizing the potential for irony in the above, the DENY section is something the RCC and the EO are unlikely to agree with.
I think what he's getting at is that the statement in the petition doesn't have anything to do with the inerrancy of the hermeneutical method, but in the inerrancy of the Bible.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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