Originally posted by Trout
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Theology 201 Guidelines
This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Death Of Jan Crouch
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Babylon Bee? Isn't that a satire website?Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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From the Christian Examiner:
"Satire works because it offends and in offending shocks our senses to the reality behind the joke," wrote Nate Schlomann. "It is in the very moments of life and death and pain and suffering that the hellacious Prosperity Gospel does its most damage. Sad to have seen this pastorally first hand too many times. So this is the perfect time, there can be no other. Go BB."
Mike Chaney wrote: "Truth is not always comforting and can be offensive. The post sarcastically addresses a legitimate question. It is far less offensive than teaching a doctrine that causes people to live in doubt, guilt and shame for not having enough faith to claim perfect health and abundant wealth."
http://www.christianexaminer.com/art...died/50754.htm
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostIsn't Babylon Bee a satire website? While it sounds kind of like stuff the WoF movement says, it might be a good idea to find another source.
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Well, I'm sorry to hear she passed.
I'm afraid all I feel about this article is what I feel about anything else regarding satire - they go too far into bad taste on occasions like this.
I'm surprised as the hostility I'm seeing here about this subject. I don't agree with the WoF teaching by a long shot, but goodness.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by DesertBerean View PostWell, I'm sorry to hear she passed.
I'm afraid all I feel about this article is what I feel about anything else regarding satire - they go too far into bad taste on occasions like this.
I'm surprised as the hostility I'm seeing here about this subject. I don't agree with the WoF teaching by a long shot, but goodness.
This is VERY close to me, and I will not allow an opportunity to pass to speak the truth about these vile false prophets. And, sadly, Jan Crouch was one of the worst.
She is beyond help now, but half a billion people worldwide who follow this movement are not, and they need to be shown the truth.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostFrom the same article seer posted:
"Whatever the reason for Crouch’s sudden passing, Trinity Broadcasting Network has announced an upcoming month of solemnly and aggressively seeking donations in her honor."
Are you kidding me?Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostI have a friend who's mother died of breast cancer a few years ago. She followed a WoF movement and refused medical treatment. She kept saying that is she had more faith she would get better. Her faith became a hammer over her head instead of a comfort.
This is VERY close to me, and I will not allow an opportunity to pass to speak the truth about these vile false prophets. And, sadly, Jan Crouch was one of the worst.
She is beyond help now, but half a billion people worldwide who follow this movement are not, and they need to be shown the truth.
And there really isn't any excuse in defending statements from a satire website that misleads people into thinking that people have said things they have not. That's the very definition of bearing false witness.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI'm with DesertBerean on this. I know a lot of people in the Word of Faith movement. A lot of sincere and righteous Christians who love God with all their heart, and have given their lives to helping others. I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Truthfully. But I've been to plenty of Word of Faith churches in my time, and while I also disagree with quite a bit of their doctrine, I've NEVER heard any pastor tell his parishioners in those churches to forego medical treatment. Quite the opposite. Every one of them that I've been to emphasized that faithfulness means seeking medical treatment alongside praying and believing for perfect health.
And there really isn't any excuse in defending statements from a satire website that misleads people into thinking that people have said things they have not. That's the very definition of bearing false witness.
So I am not defending what they said. However, for the third time, it is horribly close to what the WoF teachers DO say.
I don't know if my friend's mother was told to not seek treatment. But it was obviously what she took away from the teaching she was sitting under.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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WoF is indeed bad doctrine. I'm just concerned at the level of anger I perceive here, and, well...I'm sorry about your experiences...
This IS a satire website...Last edited by DesertBerean; 06-01-2016, 10:10 AM.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI'm with DesertBerean on this. I know a lot of people in the Word of Faith movement. A lot of sincere and righteous Christians who love God with all their heart, and have given their lives to helping others. I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Truthfully. But I've been to plenty of Word of Faith churches in my time, and while I also disagree with quite a bit of their doctrine, I've NEVER heard any pastor tell his parishioners in those churches to forego medical treatment. Quite the opposite. Every one of them that I've been to emphasized that faithfulness means seeking medical treatment alongside praying and believing for perfect health.
And there really isn't any excuse in defending statements from a satire website that misleads people into thinking that people have said things they have not. That's the very definition of bearing false witness.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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We had what become a national story regarding denial of medical treatment by faith happen right here in Barstow, years ago. I don't recall the family name, but the parents of a child decided not to seek treatment for the child's cancer. Their pastor NEVER told them to do that.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by DesertBerean View PostWe had what become a national story regarding denial of medical treatment by faith happen right here in Barstow, years ago. I don't recall the family name, but the parents of a child decided not to seek treatment for the child's cancer. Their pastor NEVER told them to do that.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostChristian Scientists are notorious for not allowing medical treatment, and to a lesser extent, Jehovah's witnesses, especially regarding blood transfusions.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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