Can a Christian be a materialist?

[TheGreenMan]

Ohhh, a thread inspired (at least in part) by me! A first.

I'll have to give this some thought before I post. Versus posting some quick not thought out clap-trap. Though I must admit I have never given it as much thought as Neil has.

Oh, and since Neil brought up Gandalf (gamers will find this funnier than others):

Gandalf.jpg

[Kelp]

Kay. Take as much time as you need, man.

[NeilUnreal]

Because wizards run out of spells.

I always carry a staff with enough bludgeoning to tank my own rest in Manatkloss.

-Neil

[Kelp]

[abu njoroge]

You must love God more than the things of the world. Build up treasures in heaven. A christian can be materially wealthy as long as he has no great attachment to this wealth. It should not be gained at the exspense of others misfortune. The more the abundance the more charitable a seeker of God becomes. At least I believe this to be true?

[Kelp]

No, no. I'm talking about materialism in the philosophical sense. I agree that a Christian can't really be a materialist in the moral sense.

[abu njoroge]

No, no. I'm talking about materialism in the philosophical sense. I agree that a Christian can't really be a materialist in the moral sense.

Sorry . didnt understand because I didnt read the thread. Now that Ive read the thread Im still not sure? Some christians believe that before Christ we all died. In other words they do not believe in ithe immortality of soul without Christs salvation. I believe as soul we are a spark taken from the body of God itself. Soul I see as eternal. The mind is of a lower creation than soul. At its highest nature soul is pure. Mind can be positive or negative given any situation. I see the physical (material) world as at the foot of Gods kingdom.In other words the five senses that even our animal cousins have relate to this material world. What some would call our six sense I see as positive or negative. If governed by mind it may be negative. If by soul one looks within,quiets the mind,listens for Gods voice as it vibrates in all creation. Their was something that was here before there was matter and energy. Much of it is unknowable. The part that is knowable many call God. It is the origin of life itself. The spiritually awake know that this is not our home. Until then we make the best with what we have. Most survive the best they can. Sometimes selfisheness is used for survival. I see sefishness as one reason for our fall from grace(heaven) in the first place. I see a metaphore in eden. This metaphore is us being away from our true home for so long that most have fallen alseep and forgotten.

[Kelp]

Well, I suppose it makes more sense to resurrect this thread than to begin an identical one.

I have another couple of questions if you don't mind, Neil . So, if at death our "higher selves" sort of "take over full time" for all of our subsequent experiences and interactions (perhaps that's a crude way of putting it, I might not be understanding you as well as I thought), how did the Incarnation work? Did Jesus need a "higher self" for His human nature so He could come to earth? Where did His body go after it "left the story" so to speak?

Also, how does the New Earth and the resurrection body fit into this? Are the made "truly real" the same way we are after death?

And also, how do miracles and angelophanies work in this context? The same way prayer does as a sort of transcendent experience?

[Bernie]

I'm not sure if a Christian can be a materialist in the strongest or most committed sense--at least there are some major compatibility problems with faith--but in light of scientific advances it seems many Christians are modifying their thinking more toward a materialistic view. I'm a non-dogmatic substance dualist, willing to concede for the sake of intellectual exploration that intelligence or consciousness per se is an inherently materialistic process. This doesn't exclude spirit as an animating principle or indetectable substance with at least one set of properties (true and false). Neuroscience continues to find lots of connections between consciousness and brain states, but the recent triumph trumpeted by committed naturalists is tempered by honest scientists who caution that despite the progress of science, there's still a long way to go to closing the door and turning out the lights on the matter of a unified and complete naturalism.

[skale777]

Hey I'm new here but I figured I would post on this thread. It seems to me that a Christian that is a Materialist in the classic sense would be an oxymoron. Like a married bachelor or a round circle or Metaphysical Naturalism. Scripture is pretty clear about what we are made of and material seems to only be one of the three.

[Kelp]

Hey I'm new here but I figured I would post on this thread. It seems to me that a Christian that is a Materialist in the classic sense would be an oxymoron. Like a married bachelor or a round circle or Metaphysical Naturalism. Scripture is pretty clear about what we are made of and material seems to only be one of the three.

Actually, there is some disagreement within Christianity on that last point. Jack Bauer there, for example would say Scripture uses the word soul as basically another word for material consciousness, if I'm not mistaken.

And indeed, historically the trichotomy view of man has been a minority viewpoint with dichotomy (body and soul) enjoying more Christian acceptance.

[Seasanctuary]

I think that this position poses serious problems when we consider survival of death. I am a dualist, so I won't try and wiggle out of this most intractable problem.

It seems to me that an immortal soul and a resurrecting God are redundant means of surviving death.

[Kelp]

It seems to me that an immortal soul and a resurrecting God are redundant means of surviving death.

Strictly speaking, it is redundant, yes. But God resurrects the body because matter is important to Him as a part of what He intended to create, not because He has to.

[disciple100]

When I think about material, I think about Einsten's famous equation:

E=mc²

The energy(e) of a mass to energy conversion equals the mass(m) that was converted multiplied by the speed of light(c) squared.

http://www.1728.com/einstein.htm

Maybe everything is material, everything is energy? Even the spirit? But the spirit is moving at the speed of light? The spiritual realm is moving at the speed of light, which is why we can't see or touch it? Just some thoughts out loud. I'll be quiet now.

[skale777]

Actually, there is some disagreement within Christianity on that last point. Jack Bauer there, for example would say Scripture uses the word soul as basically another word for material consciousness, if I'm not mistaken.

And indeed, historically the trichotomy view of man has been a minority viewpoint with dichotomy (body and soul) enjoying more Christian acceptance.

LOL I don't know. Would that mean God is also a materialistic soul? And it seems counter intuitive to Christianity to hook the soul to a dying philosophy. A materialistic consciousness to me seems like an oxymoron too. Leads to a slippery slope and undermines Christianity main claims. I know I'm being general and not going into detail but its late and I'm still learning.