Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

More "Hobbit" fossils found

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • More "Hobbit" fossils found

    Researchers announced that more fossilized remains from Homo floresiensis have been found, this time not at the Liang Bua caves on the western side of the island of Flores, where all the material has previously been unearthed, but at a site called Mata Menge which is an ancient river bed roughly 74 km (46 miles) away, in central Flores.

    The fossils included six teeth, four adult and two baby "milk" teeth, a mandible (jaw bone) fragment identified as coming from an adult because it shows signs of a wisdom tooth erupting from it, with all originating from at least three individuals.

    Also found at the site were 149 stone tools that the researchers say are associated with the fossils but are more cautious about since stone tools dating back to 800,000 years old have been found there.

    The fossils are far older than those from Liang Bua which date between 50,000 to 190,000 years old. The fossils from the Mata Menge site are approximately 700,000 years old. Further, The size of the mandible indicates that the individual was even a bit smaller than those from the later cave remains. It is nearly a quarter smaller than the mandible found at Liang Bua.

    The leader of the research team, Gert van den Bergh, of Australia's University of Wollongong's Centre for Archaeological Science, noted that they were surprised at the small size of the adult jawbone saying "We were expecting to find something larger than what we found, something closer to the size of the original founder population, Homo erectus, but it turns out that they were as small if not smaller than Homo floresiensis."

    Still, this could simply be a case of different sized individuals or sexual dimorphism, rather than being evidence that Homo floresiensis was even smaller earlier on. Hopefully more fossils will be discovered in the near future that will provide additional information.

    The fossils also add to the evidence that these remains aren't the result of disease but represent a dwarf species of human ancestor. The fact that they were around 700,000 years ago eliminates any possibility that they were stunted by illness.

    The discovery has been published in two papers in the science journal Nature


    Homo floresiensis jaw.jpg
    Mandible fragment

    Homo floresiensis tooth.jpg
    One of the teeth





    Further Reading:

    Homo floresiensis-like fossils from the early Middle Pleistocene of Flores Abstract

    Age and context of the oldest known hominin fossils from Flores Abstract

    The “Hobbit” Lineage May Be Much Older Than Previously Thought

    Hobbit find shows tiny humans shrank 'rapidly'

    New Fossils Strengthen Case for ‘Hobbit’ Species

    Fossils of 'Hobbit' ancestors found on Indonesian island

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  • #2
    Wait, are they dwarves or are they hobbits? I can't give them nicknames until I know.

    "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
    "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
    Katniss Everdeen


    Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
      Wait, are they dwarves or are they hobbits? I can't give them nicknames until I know.
      Yes.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Yes.
        Fromli it is.

        "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
        "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
        Katniss Everdeen


        Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
          Fromli it is.
          Sounds like a Dwarven name.

          Fromli Ironhand scourge of Orcs.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            No orcs yet?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              No orcs yet?
              Fromli Ironhand took care of that

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                This isn't a joke? Wow I thought it was...
                Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                Comment


                • #9
                  The discovery is very real although we're having a bit of fun with it. Homo floresiensis were first discovered in 2004 and were originally thought to have lived some 12,000 years ago but further research placed their remains and tools at being between 50,000 to 190,000 years old. The new discovery, at a second site, pushes their existence back at least half a million years.

                  Aside from the OP, here is a link to a short video at Scientific America that was produced by Nature with some general information: http://www.scientificamerican.com/vi...floresiensis1/

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    The fact that they were around 700,000 years ago eliminates any possibility that they were stunted by illness.
                    Um... how, exactly? Why can't two groups both be stunted by illness? Improbable, certainly, but not impossible.
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      Um... how, exactly? Why can't two groups both be stunted by illness? Improbable, certainly, but not impossible.
                      The same illness? Improbable is a generous description.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        The same illness? Improbable is a generous description.
                        Or a different illness with similar effects.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What i'd say is that the new skeletons show a much clearer affinity for H. erectus than the original Hobbits. Which is what you might expect, given that the originals were younger, and thus had more time to diverge. The adults in the new find also appear to be even smaller. "Improbable" seems a pretty reasonable description of the chances that this is some sort of malady specifically striking a single population over the course of nearly a half-million years.

                          The other thing is that the original disease advocates were saying these were modern humans affected by various ailments. That was originally done to account for the extremely recent date of the first hobbit finds. Those dates have now been pushed back, and the new finds are so much older that they were clearly in Flores before modern humans even existed. So, the whole reason for proposing a disease/disorder for the small size and strange morphological features is now gone.
                          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                          Comment

                          Related Threads

                          Collapse

                          Topics Statistics Last Post
                          Started by eider, 04-14-2024, 03:22 AM
                          48 responses
                          157 views
                          0 likes
                          Last Post eider
                          by eider
                           
                          Started by Ronson, 04-08-2024, 09:05 PM
                          41 responses
                          166 views
                          0 likes
                          Last Post Ronson
                          by Ronson
                           
                          Working...
                          X