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On information ... I may deeply regret this but ...

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  • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
    Nah ... you're not listening.
    Why would I want for a Bad Pig to leave?
    Then I'd have nothing to BOOT ... nothing to kick.
    That wouldn't be any fun now, would it?
    I say keep the Bad Piggy around.
    Have something to kick every now and then.
    Listening to the squeals of a Piggy ... ah, music to my ears!

    Jorge
    You're doing a bang-up job of confirming my estimation of you here. I didn't think you had the intestinal fortitude to politely tell me to leave.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      You're doing a bang-up job of confirming my estimation of you here.
      I didn't think you had the intestinal fortitude to politely tell me to leave.
      Your "estimation" of me doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

      As for "intestinal fortitude" - what you demand would be too easy.

      Squeal away, Bad Piggy ... suweee, suweee, suweee!

      Jorge

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        I would say that in its most basic form the meaning of information is a mapping between two things. Without an extant mapping, we are back to Shannon entropy, which is a measure of the raw infraction capacity.

        It is hard to fully separate meaning from Information, and that is part of the difficulty in getting good definitions. A sequence of DNA maps in a very complex fashion to some element or set of elements in the living system it is part of. That mapping may or may not depend on other contextual elements in that same system.The fact that mapping exists is what let's us say there is information in a DNA sequence.


        Jim
        The concept of information as a "mapping" might be good; I've never thought about this before.

        I don't think it works to say that a physical representation is the information. If so, duplication of a DNA molecule would double the amount of information. But as there is no new information when a DNA molecule is duplicated, I don't think most people would agree that the information has doubled. Information is something deeper or more fundamental than the physical representation. Maybe a "mapping" as you suggest.
        "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
          Your "estimation" of me doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

          As for "intestinal fortitude" - what you demand would be too easy.

          Squeal away, Bad Piggy ... suweee, suweee, suweee!

          Jorge
          Nice attempt at deflection, bully. I've got you pegged. Keep squirming - I'm looking forward to what lame put-down you come up with next.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
            But as there is no new information when a DNA molecule is duplicated, I don't think most people would agree that the information has doubled. .
            "New" information is not necessarily the same thing as "doubled" information.

            For example if a duplicated gene takes a protein product over a threshold such that an output can occur (because an output depended on whether or not a threshold was reached), then quite possibly the doubling of one thing, the gene, can generate a new output, thanks to the crossing of a protein threshold.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rwatts View Post
              "New" information is not necessarily the same thing as "doubled" information.

              For example if a duplicated gene takes a protein product over a threshold such that an output can occur (because an output depended on whether or not a threshold was reached), then quite possibly the doubling of one thing, the gene, can generate a new output, thanks to the crossing of a protein threshold.
              Certainly N identical genes might act differently than a single copy of the gene. But would you say that N identical genes contain N times the quantity of information as the single gene?
              "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
                But would you say that N identical genes contain N times the quantity of information as the single gene?
                No.

                They are not necessarily the same thing.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  Nice attempt at deflection, bully. I've got you pegged. Keep squirming - I'm looking forward to what lame put-down you come up with next.
                  No "put-down" ... just that you've become boring.

                  At first the squeals of a piglet sound cute; after a while they become just noise.

                  Oh well ... on to my next mission.

                  Jorge

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
                    But would you say that N identical genes contain N times the quantity of information as the single gene?
                    Depends on your definition of 'information'.

                    Shannon would say YES! KSC (Algorithmic) would say NO.

                    That is one of the issues that I've been working to "resolve".

                    Jorge

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                      No "put-down" ...
                      Nice to know you're incapable of admitting to even the blindly obvious.
                      just that you've become boring.

                      At first the squeals of a piglet sound cute; after a while they become just noise.

                      Oh well ... on to my next mission.

                      Jorge
                      Run away, brave sir Jorge.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment

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