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Proofs for the Existence of God

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  • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    What ever is never complete is never yet infinite.

    Denying what is always finite and temporal does not make it not finite and temporal.
    Absolutely nonsense! The objective evidence of our physical existence is neither finite and temporal, nor infinite and eternal.

    False, I realize like seer and others who reject modern math and science, you cling to narrow prejudiced views to justify your agenda. Nonetheless, the evidence is that science, nor any discipline of human knowledge can demonstrate that the nature of our physical existence is finite and temporal, nor infinite and eternal.

    You need to defend this assertion by actual objective evidence, and a coherent argument by competent science and math with references outside the self-justification of apologetic circular arguments.



    False, potential infinities are not defined requiring this finite length term "infinity." Even Aristotle realized this, and it is time you do.


    Please respond with something other than sound bite prerecorded assertions.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      Absolutely nonsense! The objective evidence of our physical existence is neither finite and temporal, nor infinite and eternal.
      So what is it, if it is neither "finite and temporal, nor infinite and eternal?"
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        So what is it, if it is neither "finite and temporal, nor infinite and eternal?"
        It is unknown as whether it is "finite and temporal, or infinite and eternal?"

        Any argument that assumes either is based on presuppositions without any objective evidence to support the argument.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          It is unknown as whether it is "finite and temporal, or infinite and eternal?"
          What is in evidence being temporal and finite is not unknown.
          Any argument that assumes either is based on presuppositions without any objective evidence to support the argument.
          All arguments have presuppositions. Again, the only evidence we have is finite and temporal.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            What ever is never complete is never yet infinite.
            Confusing, mindless and meaningless assumption

            Denying what is always finite and temporal does not make it not finite and temporal.
            Even more confusing circular reasoning.

            The nature of our physical existence is possibly eternal, which is neither finite nor temporal.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              Confusing, mindless and meaningless assumption



              Even more confusing circular reasoning.

              The nature of our physical existence is possibly eternal, which is neither finite nor temporal.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Confusing, mindless and meaningless assumption



                Even more confusing circular reasoning.

                The nature of our physical existence is possibly eternal, which is neither finite nor temporal.
                To add our physical existence may be considered complete and eternal. All possible universes, and the evolution of universe being born and eventually do so within a complete eternal physical existence.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  Airball, which signifies you are unable to respond in your hamster wheel dead end of your 'circular reason logical path.'
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Shunya arguing with 37818: you guys were made for each other.
                    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      Couldn't have said it better myself.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                        Shunya arguing with 37818: you guys were made for each other.
                        Shunya's weird esoteric ramblings on physics remind me of the former user shadowmaster, who claimed he was a working "quantum physicist", yet made blunder after blunder that showed myself and my friend Joe (another physicist) that he did not have the background he says he did.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                          Energy is directly related to the curvature of spacetime. If we presume that spacetime is past-finite and that extrapolating backward through inflation over time leads to a point at which the universe had no size, then there would be no energy at that point.
                          Well then, let us not presume. I'm not sure, but I don't think that an actual singularity is the prevailing hypotheses anyway. Is it?
                          Exactly like that. Spacetime is not matter-- at least, not as the word is used in physics. If one is talking about the broader usage of the word utilized in philosophy, then it is appropriate to refer to spacetime as matter. We just need to be wary of the simple equivocation mistakes this can create.
                          Then how would you define it if not material? Do you mean to say that spacetime consists of matter, but its a different kind of matter than the matter that is within it?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                            Energy is directly related to the curvature of spacetime. If we presume that spacetime is past-finite and that extrapolating backward through inflation over time leads to a point at which the universe had no size, then there would be no energy at that point.
                            I do not believe the concept held by many scientists is that there would be no energy at that point the 'singularity' before the expansion of the universe to our present state. I believe that some sort of matter/energy existed in the singularity, but the nature is open to speculation at present. Was it a super dense form of matter or energy? I do believe that space/time did not exist at that point.

                            Source: http://discovermagazine.com/2013/september/13-starting-point


                            In late 1979, a Stanford physics postdoc named Alan Guth offered an explanation for the explosive force behind the Big Bang. Guth’s intellectual leap stemmed from theories in particle physics, which held that at extremely high energies — far higher than could ever be reached in a laboratory — a special state of matter would turn gravity upside down, rendering it a repulsive rather than an attractive force.

                            A patch of space containing a tiny bit of this unusual matter could repel itself so violently as to literally blow up. Guth suggested that a tremendous burst of this sort triggered the Big Bang, swiftly enlarging the universe so much it doubled in size at least 100 times. This exponential growth spurt — called cosmic inflation — was short-lived, however, lasting just a tiny fraction of a second because the repulsive material quickly decayed, leaving behind the more familiar forms of matter and energy that fill the universe today.

                            © Copyright Original Source

                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-14-2017, 09:01 AM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                              Shunya arguing with 37818: you guys were made for each other.
                              A question for you MaxVal. Why would one need to prove a self evident truth? And what is the self evident truth that is God's identity?
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment

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