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Thread: Geisler on inerrancy and age of earth

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    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    And progressive creationism.
    Is that the Day-Age view?

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    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    Can you briefly describe for me "Historical Creationism?" As an OEC I fall under Progressive Creationism, and affirm a literal interpretation of Genesis.
    Sure. Historical Creationism is basically the view that the entire cosmos was created in verse 1 at an indeterminate period of time (In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Heavens and earth being a merism (a figure of speech) for the entire cosmos). The rest of the narrative isn't really describing new creative acts, so much as laying out God's preparation of the Promised Land which is the focus of the Pentateuch. This is developed in OT scholar John Sailhamer's book Genesis Unbound, and a good summary of the view can be found at John Piper's website here, http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/...-promised-land

    Its the view that I currently lean towards, especially since it seems to accord well with John Walton's cosmic temple inauguration view.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    Can you briefly describe for me "Historical Creationism?" As an OEC I fall under Progressive Creationism, and affirm a literal interpretation of Genesis.
    So you believe the 6 days of Genesis 1 are actual days? I believe so. While I believe Genesis there is a long period of time in verse 2 between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3 that follows as 6 actual days. I reject the gap theory. That there was a first creation Genesis 1:1 the gap where the geological ages came about, then the 6 days. I believe the geological ages are explained as being the flood evidence.

    I at one time believed in a day-age view Genesis 2:4. That the six days are called a day. Therefore the days were really ages of time.
    Last edited by 37818; 01-01-2015 at 11:31 PM.
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    Child of the One True King Raphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    I don't know why people keep forgetting this, but there are non-YEC literalist interpretations of the Genesis narrative. Historical Creationism, and the Gap Theory for instance.
    First off, please excuse any typos, I blame autocorrect as I'm on my phone.

    I'm not forgetting that. My problem isn't that there are alternate non-YEC literal interpretations, or even non-literal ones.
    My problem is that Geisler is saying is fine for people to do it with Genesis, while he demonises Licona for looking into what genre the Gospels are.
    I disagree with his comment that the situations are different.
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  5. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael View Post
    First off, please excuse any typos, I blame autocorrect as I'm on my phone.

    I'm not forgetting that. My problem isn't that there are alternate non-YEC literal interpretations, or even non-literal ones.
    My problem is that Geisler is saying is fine for people to do it with Genesis, while he demonises Licona for looking into what genre the Gospels are.
    I disagree with his comment that the situations are different.
    Wouldn't the big difference between the two accounts be historicity? The OEC literalist believes that the Genesis narrative is an accurate historical account meant to be taken historically. They just interpret the meaning of the actual text in a different way than YECs. But Licona's proposition, that the Matthew account of the risen saints is apocalyptic symbolism, is non-historical. Isn't it? That seems like a significant difference to me.

    That said, I think Geisler's dispute with Licona is misplaced. I don't agree with Licona's reading, but I don't think it necessarily bucks inerrantism.

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    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    So you believe the 6 days of Genesis 1 are actual days? I believe so. While I believe Genesis there is a long period of time in verse 2 between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3 that follows as 6 actual days. I reject the gap theory. That there was a first creation Genesis 1:1 the gap where the geological ages came about, then the 6 days. I believe the geological ages are explained as being the flood evidence.

    I at one time believed in a day-age view Genesis 2:4. That the six days are called a day. Therefore the days were really ages of time.
    The term Progressive Creationism, as I understand it, is the same as the Day Age understanding. I read the text literally with a different understanding than you seem to. I am not sure why some insist that a literal understanding of Genesis requires 24 hour days. There are at least 3 literal meanings for yom. One is a 24 hour day, another is a long indefinite period of time, and the third is sunrise to sunset, the daylight hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    The term Progressive Creationism, as I understand it, is the same as the Day Age understanding. I read the text literally with a different understanding than you seem to. I am not sure why some insist that a literal understanding of Genesis requires 24 hour days. There are at least 3 literal meanings for yom. One is a 24 hour day, another is a long indefinite period of time, and the third is sunrise to sunset, the daylight hours.
    Well why would the expression "the evening and the morning were the first day. were the . . . day" not make reference to one 24 hour earth day? Jewish days are reckoned from evening to evening. If metaphorical days, still, "the evening and the morning" referring to actual days would be part of the metaphor using the Hebrew word "day." Besides Genesis 2:4, can you give another example, where that term, that you know of, refers to a long indefinite period of time?

    The current solar wind mean velocity, if shortly after our Sun became the star that it is. It would be about 4 days at 93 million miles to blow the debris past Earth to allow the Sun, Moon and stars to appear in the sky as distinct lights. A plausible explanation for day 4.
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    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Well why would the expression "the evening and the morning were the first day. were the . . . day" not make reference to one 24 hour earth day? Jewish days are reckoned from evening to evening. If metaphorical days, still, "the evening and the morning" referring to actual days would be part of the metaphor using the Hebrew word "day." Besides Genesis 2:4, can you give another example, where that term, that you know of, refers to a long indefinite period of time?
    As I wrote before:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    I am not sure why some insist that a literal understanding of Genesis requires 24 hour days. There are at least 3 literal meanings for yom. One is a 24 hour day, another is a long indefinite period of time, and the third is sunrise to sunset, the daylight hours.
    That means that my understanding is also quite as literal as the 24 hour day understanding. The words for morning and evening are also the words for beginning and ending.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  10. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Quantum Weirdness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    As I wrote before:That means that my understanding is also quite as literal as the 24 hour day understanding. The words for morning and evening are also the words for beginning and ending.
    Can you give me a source for this?
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
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    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    And progressive creationism.
    Progressive Creation? have not heard that term before can you give me a synopsis or a link to a the explanation a layman can understand?

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