Is Morality Objective or Relative?

[shunyadragon]

It is not about what is workable, it is about the fact that the commands of God are moral in nature.

By definition in the English language and Philosophy morality is a construct of humans, and not the Law of God.

For instance your God says that things like homosexuality, slavery, adultery, etc.. are wrong - those are moral considerations.

In the Bible God does present a Law of God that slavery is against the Law of God.

[seer]

By definition in the English language and Philosophy morality is a construct of humans, and not the Law of God.

That is just stupid, even for you Shuny. God's commands are moral in nature by definition, since morality concerns how we interact with each other. And if God's commands tell us how to interact then they are moral.

In the Bible God does not say slavery is against the Law of God.

Are you being ignorant on purpose? That was not the point!

[shunyadragon]

That is just stupid, even for you Shuny. God's commands are moral in nature by definition, since morality concerns how we interact with each other. And if God's commands tell us how to interact then they are moral.

There is nothing in the Bible that describes nor defines 'objective morality.' Your personal assertions are not backed up by references and evidence from the Bible.

By definition morality is a human construct that is variable from culture to culture and changes over time.

Are you being ignorant on purpose? That was not the point!

No, it was a statement of fact in response to your statement, "or instance your God says that things like homosexuality, slavery, adultery, etc.. are wrong - those are moral considerations."

You are essentially making up your own definitions and concepts not based on the Bible, nor the accepted definitions in the English language.

[seer]

There is nothing in the Bible that describes nor defines 'objective morality.' Your personal assertions are not backed up by references and evidence from the Bible.

I'm not now arguing for or against "objective" morality, just that moral commands can come from God.

By definition morality is a human construct that is variable from culture to culture and changes over time.

Yes that happens, but that does not mean that the commands of God are not moral in nature - they certainly are, even if we don't always understand them.

No, it was a statement of fact in response to your statement, "or instance your God says that things like homosexuality, slavery, adultery, etc.. are wrong - those are moral considerations."

No Shuny, I said YOUR GOD said that things like homosexuality, slavery, and adultery are wrong - I quoted your teachings. And those are moral in nature.

[shunyadragon]

I'm not now arguing for or against "objective" morality, just that moral commands can come from God.

Yes that happens, but that does not mean that the commands of God are not moral in nature - they certainly are, even if we don't always understand them.

You conflating terminology, when something is 'moral in nature,' does not translate to there being morals. Even the concept of something being 'moral in nature' is too vague and nebulous to be real. You either believe in the Laws of God or you do not.

No Shuny, I said YOUR GOD said that things like homosexuality, slavery, and adultery are wrong - I quoted your teachings. And those are moral in nature.

In the Baha'i Faith they are Laws of God. Morals are too inconsistent and variable from culture to culture.

Morals and ethics may or may not be based on Laws of God, this is too inconsistent a concept, but they do not represent Laws of God.

[HumbleThinker]

Morals and ethics may or may not be based on Laws of God, this is too inconsistent a concept, but they do not represent Laws of God.

Just so I understand your position, is "thou shall not kill" a moral command or not?

[seer]

Just so I understand your position, is "thou shall not kill" a moral command or not?

Don't try - he doesn't even know what he believes.

[seer]

Morals and ethics may or may not be based on Laws of God, this is too inconsistent a concept, but they do not represent Laws of God.

What are you saying Shuny? The law of God are the commands of God and they are clearly moral in nature.

[shunyadragon]

Just so I understand your position, is "thou shall not kill" a moral command or not?

No, it is not a moral command. It is a Law of God, and you will need to be careful on translation on what is meant by 'kill,' In the ten commandments it is not against God's Law to 'kill.' IT is against the law to take a life as in 'wrongful death.'

A moral command would be based on the morality one culture or another as defined in the Stanford Dictionary of Philosophy. It is a matter of comprehension of basic English language.

[seer]

No, it is not a moral command.

This is just stupid, of course it is. Thou shalt not murder is God telling us that murder is WRONG. That is a completely moral consideration.

A moral command would be based on the morality one culture or another as defined in the Stanford Dictionary of Philosophy. It is a matter of comprehension of basic English language.

No according to your Stanford Dictionary of Philosophy, God's commands are moral:

The second line of thought to be traced in this entry starts with the Hebrew Bible and continues with the Greek scriptures called by Christians ‘The New Testament’. Morality and religion are connected in the Hebrew Bible primarily by the category of God's command. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/re.../#HebBibNewTes

[HumbleThinker]

No, it is not a moral command. It is a Law of God, and you will need to be careful on translation on what is meant by 'kill,' In the ten commandments it is not against God's Law to 'kill.' IT is against the law to take a life as in 'wrongful death.'

A moral command would be based on the morality one culture or another as defined in the Stanford Dictionary of Philosophy. It is a matter of comprehension of basic English language.

Would I be stating your position correctly, then, if I were to say not killing/murdering is morally good but God's command to not kill/murder has no moral component to it? If so, would you say that not killing/murdering is morally good because God commanded it, presuming you believe in divine command theory?

[shunyadragon]

Would I be stating your position correctly, then, if I were to say not killing/murdering is morally good but God's command to not kill/murder has no moral component to it? If so, would you say that not killing/murdering is morally good because God commanded it, presuming you believe in divine command theory?

I believe by the consistent definitions in the English language you are misusing inconsistently 'moral' and 'morally' in the context of Divine Command Theory. Your conflating terminology of kill and murder. You need to clarify this contradiction. 'Wrongful death' is against the Law of God in every religion of the world throughout history.

[HumbleThinker]

I believe by the consistent definitions in the English language you are misusing inconsistently 'moral' and 'morally' in the context of Divine Command Theory. Your conflating terminology of kill and murder. You need to clarify this contradiction. 'Wrongful death' is against the Law of God in every religion of the world throughout history.

I am using kill/murder to side-step that issue as it is not relevant to the discussion at hand.

Divine command theory, which I presume by your above post you are claiming to believe in, simply states that an act is morally good if it is commanded by God. So is not murdering morally good? Yes or no please. Is God's command to not murder devoid of a moral component (in other words it is neither morally good nor morally bad)? Yes or no please. If the answer to both is yes, is not murdering morally good because God commanded it? Yes or no please.

[shunyadragon]

I am using kill/murder to side-step that issue as it is not relevant to the discussion at hand.

This does not clarify how you are using 'kill/murder.' It is ambiguous.

Divine command theory, which I presume by your above post you are claiming to believe in, simply states that an act is morally good if it is commanded by God. So is not murdering morally good? Yes or no please. Is God's command to not murder devoid of a moral component (in other words it is neither morally good nor morally bad)? Yes or no please. If the answer to both is yes, is not murdering morally good because God commanded it? Yes or no please.

I do not accept the definition of Divine Command theory that refers to morals nor morality, for reasons of conflating the morals and morality of humans with the Law of God.

The Divine Command Theory I believe in is that simply the Law of God is highest standard of human responsibility, behavior and belief.

[seer]

Would I be stating your position correctly, then, if I were to say not killing/murdering is morally good but God's command to not kill/murder has no moral component to it? If so, would you say that not killing/murdering is morally good because God commanded it, presuming you believe in divine command theory?

I don't think Shuny holds to the divine command theory. Neither do I.