Apologetics And Personal Testimony

[Sparko]

The woman knew she was in the presence of someone special because he was able to know all about her without knowing her previously and then said He was the Messiah.

That's hardly the same.

I think Punkish raises a great point. We don't see this going on in the NT.

She was convinced by Jesus, but the others were convinced by HER TESTIMONY.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Her testimony of what?

What had happened to her internally?

Or her testimony of a real event that had happened with a man who knew all she had ever done?

[Sparko]

Her testimony of what?

What had happened to her internally?

Or her testimony of a real event that had happened with a man who knew all she had ever done?

are you saying that a person's testimony is only internal? I told you how my dad's testimony converted a dozen people including me, and his changed life was most definitely external. Do you think his encounter with Jesus wasn't real?

[Apologiaphoenix]

are you saying that a person's testimony is only internal? I told you how my dad's testimony converted a dozen people including me, and his changed life was most definitely external. Do you think his encounter with Jesus wasn't real?

No, but I'm saying you will find people who say the same thing about Hinduism, Islam, and just good psychology. Heck. I saw a Watchtower magazine yesterday with that in there. Are you saying the encounter with Jehovah wasn't real?

[Sparko]

No, but I'm saying you will find people who say the same thing about Hinduism, Islam, and just good psychology. Heck. I saw a Watchtower magazine yesterday with that in there. Are you saying the encounter with Jehovah wasn't real?

The other religions use personal testimony because it is effective. Are you saying that personal testimony is NOT effective?

[Apologiaphoenix]

It is, but if that's all you've got, all other religions have that too. Heck. Atheists have personal testimony.

[Adrift]

Her testimony of what?

What had happened to her internally?

Or her testimony of a real event that had happened with a man who knew all she had ever done?

First is the fact that Jesus is interacting with a Samaritan. In another thread we're discussing the significance of ministering to the marginalized, and Samaritans were marginalized by Jews. This was a big deal that Jesus was engaging with an outsider, and she was aware of that. 2nd Jesus reveals her sin, but instead of rebuking her harshly deals with her gently. As Kostenberger points out, and per Cantwell, "The effect of Jesus' words seems to be that the woman 'is hurt and sobered by his knowledge of her secret, but is liberated from the need to go on concealing it.'" Ben Witherington points out that the woman has three strikes against her, a.) that she's an immoral woman, b.) that she's a Samaritan woman, and c.) that she is a woman that Jesus doesn't know (Jewish men did not talk to women they did not know in that culture).

That Jesus reveals himself to this person says much about how powerful the interaction must have been to her. Which brings us to the 3rd point, Jesus shares with her deep mysteries about the living water and the worship sought by the Father. 4th, Jesus refers to God as a Father, "'The Father' is a direct object, a dative of personal interest, suggesting personal relationship, that is, the new relationship created in the life of the genuine worshipper" (Kostenberger). With these revelations, the Samaritan women recognizes Jesus as a prophet, after which Jesus reveals to her that he is the Christ.

That's some powerful stuff, and, in my opinion, some powerful testimony. And as Ambassadors of Christ, indwelt with the Holy Spirit, others too can know that they are in the presence of someone special.

[Adrift]

It is, but if that's all you've got, all other religions have that too. Heck. Atheists have personal testimony.

And...that's where apologetics usually come into the picture. It's a 1-2 punch. A testimony often attracts someone to Christ, but good theology, correct doctrine, and a healthy apologetic helps demonstrate why Christianity isn't like these other religions (or non-religions). Of course, it can't go without saying that the Holy Spirit has a tremendous part in evangelism. And not everything works for all people. People are different, and the Holy Spirit works on our hearts in different ways, but in the end he is the one responsible for renewing us, regenerating us, teaching and transforming us.

[Sparko]

It is, but if that's all you've got, all other religions have that too. Heck. Atheists have personal testimony.

so? why does that mean we shouldn't use personal testimonies in Christianity if it works? And did I ever say NOT to use apologetics or share the gospel? Go back and read my first post again, please.

In real life... not on the internet, and not from a podium... with people you live and work with, this is how it typically goes: You live your Christian life, letting people know you are a Christian by your words and deeds. When presented a chance you share your personal testimony and the gospel, invite them to church, show them love and compassion. If they have questions or want to argue, then you use apologetics to answer their questions. So basically apologetics when needed. You want to go around tossing apologetics at them from the getgo, when they have not even shown an interest in Christianity, thinking you can argue them into salvation. All that will do is make most people avoid you like they do sidewalk preachers yelling about hellfire.

[Apologiaphoenix]

so? why does that mean we shouldn't use personal testimonies in Christianity if it works? And did I ever say NOT to use apologetics or share the gospel? Go back and read my first post again, please.

And did I say NOT to use personal testimonies? Go back and read my post.

In real life... not on the internet, and not from a podium... with people you live and work with, this is how it typically goes: You live your Christian life, letting people know you are a Christian by your words and deeds. When presented a chance you share your personal testimony and the gospel, invite them to church, show them love and compassion. If they have questions or want to argue, then you use apologetics to answer their questions. So basically apologetics when needed. You want to go around tossing apologetics at them from the getgo, when they have not even shown an interest in Christianity, thinking you can argue them into salvation. All that will do is make most people avoid you like they do sidewalk preachers yelling about hellfire.

Um. No. You don't really know what I do. I hardly ever get involved in conversations outside of Facebook which could be an Aspie thing, but if I did, I'd start with people where they were. I wouldn't get into apologetics unless the situation came up. If they asked why I was a Christian, I wouldn't give a personal testimony. I would tell them about Jesus rising from the dead.

And for Adrift, the unusual matter about Jesus is that he was at least a prophet to her since he kept knowing more and more about her that he couldn't have known on his own and then he claimed to be the Messiah. He had backed it by his secret knowledge. That was what she said to the people. "He knew what I had done without my telling Him! Could He be the Messiah?"

It wasn't "He changed my life so much! Could He be the Messiah?"

[Sparko]

And did I say NOT to use personal testimonies? Go back and read my post.



Um. No. You don't really know what I do. I hardly ever get involved in conversations outside of Facebook which could be an Aspie thing, but if I did, I'd start with people where they were. I wouldn't get into apologetics unless the situation came up. If they asked why I was a Christian, I wouldn't give a personal testimony. I would tell them about Jesus rising from the dead.

And for Adrift, the unusual matter about Jesus is that he was at least a prophet to her since he kept knowing more and more about her that he couldn't have known on his own and then he claimed to be the Messiah. He had backed it by his secret knowledge. That was what she said to the people. "He knew what I had done without my telling Him! Could He be the Messiah?"

It wasn't "He changed my life so much! Could He be the Messiah?"

Sooooo basically we each have different approaches that work best for us. So maybe you shouldn't advise people to follow your formula as if it were a script. For me, and a lot of others, sharing a personal testimony is a great ice-breaker and at least gets the conversation rolling. Then I can move on to answering questions and sharing the gospel.

[Sparko]

Sooooo basically we each have different approaches that work best for us. So maybe you shouldn't advise people to follow your formula as if it were a script. For me, and a lot of others, sharing a personal testimony is a great ice-breaker and at least gets the conversation rolling. Then I can move on to answering questions and sharing the gospel.

sorry I didn't mean to sound so snarky, Nick.

I do think that relying JUST on personal testimony is wrong, and that is why we do need apologetics, to sift the wheat from the chaff, but I also think that our personal experiences are vital in connecting with people so that they will actually stick around and listen to the gospel and the apologetics. It especially helps if your personal testimony has a connection with their lives, like how you stopped drinking because of Jesus, would be attractive to someone struggling with drugs or alcohol. They definitely should then want to know more and know WHY what you claim is true, not blindly accept your feelings on the matter.

[Cow Poke]

Time after time, I have seen people come to faith in Christ through the personal testimony of another person. I have been a soul winner for nearly 50 years, and I think it's not so much the "words I say", but the Holy Spirit honoring my obedience in "sharing the Good News", and touching the life of the other person. I have seen "dumb farmers" (one of the best soul winners I've ever known described himself as "just a dumb farmer") be obedient in sharing the Gospel, and seeing people come to faith in Christ.

I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that we (I) need to do a better job in apologetics, but what good is somebody "knowing stuff" if they don't know Jesus as Savior?

It's not about me - it's about the power of the Holy Spirit, and I'm thrilled that, for whatever reason, He often seems to choose to use my personal testimony, and the testimony of others I know, to bring people to Jesus.

[Adrift]

And for Adrift, the unusual matter about Jesus is that he was at least a prophet to her since he kept knowing more and more about her that he couldn't have known on his own and then he claimed to be the Messiah. He had backed it by his secret knowledge. That was what she said to the people. "He knew what I had done without my telling Him! Could He be the Messiah?"

It wasn't "He changed my life so much! Could He be the Messiah?"

I don't know how many people I've known who've heard a sermon, or ran into someone with a testimony, or even read a passage in scripture and said to themselves, "That's me! They're talking to me!" And maybe it isn't the case that the pastor, or the person offering his testimony, or the passage of scripture is literally and specifically talking to that person, but I believe that Jesus has the power to talk to people through other people and through his written word, and sometimes the Holy Spirit guides that person to the right time and place so that a fire is lit. And this happens in such a way that it wouldn't be far off to say that one recognized something/someone prophetic or divine had come into their life.

[Truthseeker]

Will someone explain 1 Peter 3:15-16 so that I can see more clearly what role apologetics should play in the Christian life? Does that Biblical passage mean that every good Christian should devote some period of time to becoming ever better in apologetics?

I doubt every person who "converts" understands what ultimate goal or goals the fledging Christian should reach to.

Winning "converts" equates to making second down with 7 yards to go to the next first down in football. In baseball, the first or second base.

Don't count your chicken 'til they hatch. Well, maybe I should not have quoted that. Who knows which of us is in the elect?