Speech Topics

[Sparko]

That actually could be another topic of speech and Q&A --- "Has this !@^!&!#@$ Political Correctness gone too far?"

And, by the way, they're not "crooks", they are "justice involved individuals".

[Sparko]

here you go CP:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/P...al-6598509.php

[fm93]

good logic

so then by your logic, since illegal aliens are people who are in the country illegally, it is actually fair to call them "illegals"

Illegal immigrants, maybe. "Illegals?" Heck no. A robber is someone who engages in robbing, a murderer is someone who engages in murdering, a rapist is someone who engages in raping...but there's no action called "illegaling." The term exists purely to denigrate.

how is that denigrating? It is merely descriptive. Like calling people who break the law, "crooks"

Actually, the "merely descriptive" term for a person who breaks the law is "lawbreaker." To call such a person a crook IS to cast a negative judgment of disdain and denigration. After all, Rosa Parks was technically a lawbreaker, but no morally decent person would call her a crook, because the law she broke was unjust and oppressive, and it should have been broken.

It's fine to call someone a crook if the person has broken laws against robbery or murder or rape, because such crimes are gravely serious. Someone who commits them SHOULD be viewed with disdain and denigration. If you strip away another person's dignity, it seems fair to call you a term that strips away your dignity in return. But simply crossing a border when a government tells you not to is hardly serious enough to warrant that.

but in truth, Trump was not kicked off his TV show (The apprentice) - where did you get that from?

NBC--which broadcasts the show--cut all ties with him. That's basically being kicked off.

[Sparko]

Illegal immigrants, maybe. "Illegals?" Heck no. A robber is someone who engages in robbing, a murderer is someone who engages in murdering, a rapist is someone who engages in raping...but there's no action called "illegaling." The term exists purely to denigrate.

no it doesn't. You are not from around here are you? "illegals" is just short for "illegal immigrants" or "illegal aliens"- no body else is called that. We don't call bank robbers or murderers "illegals" we call them "criminals" or "crooks" (as well as robbers and killers) - Are you from England by chance and this is some sort of slang mistake? Illegals doesn't even have to do with any particular race. They can be Canadians, Europeans, Mexicans, Japanese, Africans. It only has to do with how they got into the country. It is a descriptive and technical term.

Actually, the "merely descriptive" term for a person who breaks the law is "lawbreaker."

or crook, or criminal, or outlaw. We have lots of descriptive terms.

To call such a person a crook IS to cast a negative judgment of disdain and denigration.

gee because generally breaking the law IS something negative? Could that be it?

After all, Rosa Parks was technically a lawbreaker, but no morally decent person would call her a crook, because the law she broke was unjust and oppressive, and it should have been broken.

really?

But simply crossing a border when a government tells you not to is hardly serious enough to warrant that.

yeah like they just accidentally wandered into another country. oops.

NBC--which broadcasts the show--cut all ties with him. That's basically being kicked off.

Well that's not a surprise, NBC is basically a democrat shill. But I am pretty sure he stopped any further shows with him on it because he was running for president. How would he have time for it, and what would it look like to be running an apprentice show while he was trying to become president?

[fm93]

no it doesn't. You are not from around here are you? "illegals" is just short for "illegal immigrants" or "illegal aliens"- no body else is called that. We don't call bank robbers or murderers "illegals" we call them "criminals" or "crooks" (as well as robbers and killers) - Are you from England by chance and this is some sort of slang mistake? Illegals doesn't even have to do with any particular race. They can be Canadians, Europeans, Mexicans, Japanese, Africans. It only has to do with how they got into the country. It is a descriptive and technical term.

I'm an American-born citizen, and I'm aware that some people use "illegals" as shorthand for "illegal immigrants." The issue is that I believe such usage is problematic. And I didn't say anything about race, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

or crook, or criminal, or outlaw. We have lots of descriptive terms.
gee because generally breaking the law IS something negative? Could that be it?

really?

You seem to have missed my point. Breaking a law isn't necessarily bad, because some laws are immoral and deserve to be broken. Therefore, a merely descriptive term for someone who breaks a law is not "crook" or "criminal." Those terms imply that someone broke a law that shouldn't be broken. They involve a moral judgment and thus aren't merely descriptive.

yeah like they just accidentally wandered into another country. oops.

I feel the same way about illegal immigration as I feel about people jaywalking across a street--you ought to cross legally, but as long as no one gets hurt before, during, or after the crossing, I really can't muster any moral outrage about it.

Well that's not a surprise, NBC is basically a democrat shill. But I am pretty sure he stopped any further shows with him on it because he was running for president. How would he have time for it, and what would it look like to be running an apprentice show while he was trying to become president?

It's one thing for a man to go on hiatus or resign from a company on his own terms. It's another thing for the company itself to declare "We'll never do business with him again," which is what NBC did. Even if he eventually wanted to return, he wouldn't be allowed to. That's essentially getting kicked off.

[The Melody Maker]

Just to reiterate some great advice, everyone...

Perhaps a good topic to bring up in Civics. But it doesn't really do to carry on this discussion in this thread. The op is just asking for speech topics, not discussion on said topics.

[Sparko]

I'm an American-born citizen, and I'm aware that some people use "illegals" as shorthand for "illegal immigrants." The issue is that I believe such usage is problematic. And I didn't say anything about race, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

yeah? well I disagree with you. now what?

You seem to have missed my point. Breaking a law isn't necessarily bad, because some laws are immoral and deserve to be broken. Therefore, a merely descriptive term for someone who breaks a law is not "crook" or "criminal." Those terms imply that someone broke a law that shouldn't be broken. They involve a moral judgment and thus aren't merely descriptive.

oh please. you are nitpicking a term to the point of absurdity.

I feel the same way about illegal immigration as I feel about people jaywalking across a street--you ought to cross legally, but as long as no one gets hurt before, during, or after the crossing, I really can't muster any moral outrage about it.

Many people who come across are not actual criminals (other than being illegal) they just want a better life. But a lot of people who come over are indeed criminals, like drug cartel members, people escaping the law in mexico or canada, or even the middle east and europe, etc. They are not all innocent dirt farmers thinking they can be rich in America. But they are all illegals. they didn't just jaywalk across the border.

I think in fact that the USA should take in a certain number of "refugees" from Mexico per year. Maybe have a lottery or something (if it could be kept fair and not taken advantage of by cartels) each year. That way certain number can come over legally with a green card. But sneaking over is indeed illegal and therefore they are "illegals" they are in the country illegally.

[mossrose]

Sparky!

Take it to Civics!

[Sparko]

Sparky!

Take it to Civics!

ok, but no sneaking across the border!!!