Why does God need to/want to be worshipped?

[Demolition Man]

Hello everyone, it has been a really long time since I've posted here, but I'm always up for questions and learning so here is one that comes up a lot.

I've heard the quote from atheists/agnostics: "I can't believe in a god who wants to be worshipped all the time" or something similar.

Now, this does give me some problems. If the God that Christians claim to worship is an all powerful God that doesn't "need", then why is it so necessary for Him to be worshipped? There are all these passages in the Bible that talk about God deserving and demanding worship of the highest degree: No other gods before me, love the Lord your God with all your heart, and GRAVE consequences for anyone who is not ultimately going to do this.

If any human being were to take upon this attitude, we would call them a nut-case ego-tripper. The truly humble people that we would admire the most do not esteem themselves and wouldn't punish anyone for not praising them. So why should God be different? If God is self-sufficient, wouldn't it make more sense for Him to say, "Hey, I know I'm awesome, so I don't NEED anyone to tell me and I'm not going punish anyone for not doing so"? When it truly comes down to it, if we are going to be totally honest with the big picture, this is what life is all about for God. Worship me and do EVERYTHING THAT I SAY, or you suffer in hell. This is not a small matter.

More often the not, the problem that I see with how Christians answer this question is this: they answer from a mindset that says the question is already answered so it makes sense for them before they even open their mouths. You've been worshipping God and think He's awesome so it's easy for you, but you don't try to think about the mindset of someone who thinks God is this angry, meglo-maniacal being who kills people who do not worship him. The question needs to be answered so that the questioning perspective is fulfilled; not so you can simply feel justified with your current belief.

To be completely honest with you guys, this question really gives me hesitation in finding any sufficient answer for it. Certainly, we do praise things, like people praise LSU football around here or bass-boating, but for God to NEED this, it strikes me as strange. I'm not trying to be blasphemous; I'm just being honest and speaking as a man who's struggled for over 10 years with every day feeling like a battle on the line between Christianity and agnosticism.

Any takers?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I see your question. I'll try to answer it when I get home from class this evening.

[Soyeong]

Hello Demolition Man.

I've heard the quote from atheists/agnostics: "I can't believe in a god who wants to be worshipped all the time" or something similar.

I think they are viewing god as something created by man that should behave in a way that they want them to. It is a copout because if you try to find out what type of god they would believe in you would find that they have made have made themselves god because this new god exists to serve them, and not the other way around.

Now, this does give me some problems. If the God that Christians claim to worship is an all powerful God that doesn't "need", then why is it so necessary for Him to be worshipped? There are all these passages in the Bible that talk about God deserving and demanding worship of the highest degree: No other gods before me, love the Lord your God with all your heart, and GRAVE consequences for anyone who is not ultimately going to do this.

If any human being were to take upon this attitude, we would call them a nut-case ego-tripper. The truly humble people that we would admire the most do not esteem themselves and wouldn't punish anyone for not praising them. So why should God be different? If God is self-sufficient, wouldn't it make more sense for Him to say, "Hey, I know I'm awesome, so I don't NEED anyone to tell me and I'm not going punish anyone for not doing so"? When it truly comes down to it, if we are going to be totally honest with the big picture, this is what life is all about for God. Worship me and do EVERYTHING THAT I SAY, or you suffer in hell. This is not a small matter.

Worship should be given where worship is due. If it were due to a human, then I would think nothing less of them for expecting it. God created everything, so He deserves to be worshiped. He didn’t need to create anything and he doesn’t need us to worship him, but it is within His right to do what He wants with what He created that do know fulfill their intended purpose.

More often the not, the problem that I see with how Christians answer this question is this: they answer from a mindset that says the question is already answered so it makes sense for them before they even open their mouths. You've been worshipping God and think He's awesome so it's easy for you, but you don't try to think about the mindset of someone who thinks God is this angry, meglo-maniacal being who kills people who do not worship him. The question needs to be answered so that the questioning perspective is fulfilled; not so you can simply feel justified with your current belief.

If you created something and it does not fulfill its intended purpose, are you meglo-maniacal for deciding to discard or destroy it? In this case, God has given us free will to choose not to fulfill our purpose, but that does not mean that we are any less responsible for the consequences of making the wrong decision.

[rHarryr]

Demolition Man;

Your question is a legitimate one. I can only give you an analogy. Taking into consideration that with respect to GOD, all analogies fall short, I will try to give you an analogy on human levels.

If you go back in history, you’ll find points in time where a king with dictatorial rule, like the one talked about in the apocryphal book of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes, which if you can find it means God Manifest, told the Jews that they can worship their God, but they have to put him first. If they didn’t, he would kill them. You can also find in history, those that concurred a country, enslaved the people and punished them severely. To put this in a Christian context, these are the devils methods of turning people against GOD, making them see him in a bad light or turning from him completely. After all, who wants to live under this kind of authority?

Now, the devil makes people think, by tempting them with the pleasures of the world and the flesh, thereby believing that they have what GOD promises here and now, why should you worship a GOD that you can’t see, and who promises things that you may or may not get, after you die, when you can have it now, without the wait.

According to Christian doctrine, to live in that manner now, putting yourself and the world first, you are following the devil whether you know it or not. By doing so, you fall into the category of those that will keep the devil company throughout eternity in the lake of fire.

This is where Faith comes in, if you believe and trust GOD to do what He says, you will not only have pleasures for evermore, starting here and now, with persecutions. Yes, that what Jesus said, here and now with persecutions, but forever more living in mansions as the sons of the living GOD. The catch is, you have to put Him first, believe and trust him, and not let those that disbelieve, practice anti-Faith, (apistis), cause you to doubt Him. Letting the world, the flesh, and the devil, cause you to doubt, by seeing circumstance around you as the ultimate truth, maybe not the ultimate truth, but at least as real as what GOD says, is what causes so many people that claim believe, but listen to the rationale of man, to backslide and to doubt. The problem with that is that if they do that long enough to grieve the Spirit, they will be given to believe a lie and be damned with the rest of those that put everything else before GOD.

Your question, why does GOD need to be worshiped, He doesn’t, He could wipe everything out with the wave of His hand and start over again. What He did was to give mankind, or rather (Adamkind) the opportunity to believe, trust, and eventually become sons and live in eternal paradise with Him and Jesus. He will not force you, He gives you the choice, Him, or the world the flesh and the devil. Either Or, there is no in between. It is your choice.

I hope I answered you question. If there is anything about what I said that you don’t understand, ask and I will try to clarify it.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Alright.

First off, God does have an objective nature. That nature is awesome, beautiful, holy, etc. He is also self-sufficient.

God does not ask our worship for his good. He doesn't need it. It's actually for our good. We are then being formed to be who we were meant to be. In essence, God creates with the desire of multiplying goodness and beauty so that others may partake of it. He creates out of an abundance of love.

Worship isn't feeding God's ego. It's acknowledging the truth. He is who we are and we are who we are and we find our rest in him. We find our completeness in being conformed to Christ.

[Alucard]

God does not ask our worship for his good. He doesn't need it. It's actually for our good.

This.

It's not in God's interests for us to be in communion with him, though I'm sure he enjoys it. It's for our benefit. The atheists who ask this questions often approach it from too much of a man-centered basis, as if people are the only thing in the universe that matter to God.

[Demolition Man]

Ok guys, I appreciate your replies, but I'm going to be completely honest about them. They just sound like cop-outs to me. I'll try to explain why I think so.

"It is a copout because if you try to find out what type of god they would believe in you would find that they have made have made themselves god because this new god exists to serve them, and not the other way around."

I'm sure lots of atheists think this way, but it's too much of a blanket statement. I think it's a reasonable question to ask why a God who is perfect is going to get angry because someone doesn't WORSHIP him, and we can't diminish the fact that, according to the Bible, he is angry and even HATEFUL towards those who will not worship him. "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire"; that just strikes me as angry. Maybe it sounds different to you. I don't think this objection is defeated simply because some atheists want to make their own God.

And here's a kicker:

"If you created something and it does not fulfill its intended purpose, are you meglo-maniacal for deciding to discard or destroy it?"

This analogy doesn't hold water for me, because human beings are more than somethings that can be discarded like a Edison-lightbulb-failure if it doesn't work. And besides, as confusing as this world is, how many people do you think really KNOW what our supposed intended purpose is and for the people who don't, do you think it's because they are willfully being evil and refusing it or because they just don't know? I could hardly see someone deserving condemnation for that.

"He didn’t need to create anything and he doesn’t need us to worship him, but it is within His right to do what He wants with what He created that do know fulfill their intended purpose."

How we know he didn't need? In my eyes, if a being is perfect, but he makes beings that MUST worship Him or pay the price because He is a jealous god, etc., that sounds like need.

rHarryr, I don't think the devil makes me doubt and ask questions any more than God makes me do good stuff. Everything that I have come to doubt has risen out of the natural flow of things. I don't need help from an outside source; it simply happens.

I see different, and in some ways contradicting, answers from all you guys and the question I have for any of them is: where did you get this answer? How do you know that God creates out of an abundance of love or that it's not in God's interest for us to be communion with Him? Do you really know this somehow?

I appreciate the answers, but I have to be blunt about it because I'm trying to find truth here.

[rHarryr]

Demolition Man;

If I recall, I said you had a legitimate question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I see it, first thing is, you have to come to a realization of who GOD really is before you can understand what your purpose, reason for being, is. A good example of who GOD is and His authority over us is in Jeremiah 18: 1-6. He is talking about His authority over the House of Israel, but as Christians, that extends too us also. When you come to the realization in yourself of who He is and that He is GOD because He is all powerful and doesn't have to answer to anyone, which means He can do what he wants, when He wants whether we like it or not. You can tell your atheist frinds not to worry. They might be some of those He doesn't want. If He does, they're not atheist, they're agnostic. Then they can be like my pastor, He studied for about three years until he settled the question of the resurection for himself, and came to the conclusion that there is no other answer, He (JESUS), came out of that tomb. And then they'll have to ask themselves, where do I go from here. So, tell them not to worry about it as long as they don't feel the urge. If they ever do, then GOD will lead them to someone, probably a pastor somewhere that can answer all of ther questions. Untill then, live life to it's fullist. It might be all that you have to look forward too.

[Soyeong]

Hello Demolition Man.

Since you don’t have many posts and you didn’t use quote tags, I’ll tell you how to use them just in case you didn’t know. If you wanted to quote me as saying “Hello Demolition Man.” type [quote= Soyeong]Hello Demolition Man.[/ quote] but without the spaces after the = and the /.

I'm sure lots of atheists think this way, but it's too much of a blanket statement. I think it's a reasonable question to ask why a God who is perfect is going to get angry because someone doesn't WORSHIP him, and we can't diminish the fact that, according to the Bible, he is angry and even HATEFUL towards those who will not worship him. "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire"; that just strikes me as angry. Maybe it sounds different to you. I don't think this objection is defeated simply because some atheists want to make their own God.

My point is that all atheists who use that excuse should also believe the thought that any god that exists should be restricted to do only things that they want or expect them to do, thereby placing themselves above that god. I mean, if a god exists and they want to be worshiped all of the time, then that is no reason to refuse to believe that they exist.

I agree that that verse shows that God is angry, but I would still like to see a verse that shows that He is hateful. I also agree that it is reasonable to ask why a perfect God gets angry, but I don’t think it is a reasonable excuse not to believe because He wants to be worshipped all of the time.

This analogy doesn't hold water for me, because human beings are more than somethings that can be discarded like a Edison-lightbulb-failure if it doesn't work.

Why do you say humans are more? Have we not all sinned and deserve death?

And besides, as confusing as this world is, how many people do you think really KNOW what our supposed intended purpose is and for the people who don't, do you think it's because they are willfully being evil and refusing it or because they just don't know? I could hardly see someone deserving condemnation for that.

I believe God is just and He will justly judge us by our knowledge and what we do with it.

How we know he didn't need? In my eyes, if a being is perfect, but he makes beings that MUST worship Him or pay the price because He is a jealous god, etc., that sounds like need.

If God had a need to be worshipped, I think He could skip the whole charade and just create beings that had no choice but to worship Him. It looks to me more like a want, in that He wants us to willingly choose to worship Him. God created us to do good works, which He has prepared in advance for us to do (Ephesians 2:10). He didn’t have to allow us to be able to choose to not to do what He created us for to do, but that’s how He wanted it, because that’s how He did it. However, I don’t see anything wrong with God getting angry when we choose wrongly.

[rHarryr]

Demolition Man;

I’m a little curious. You say you’re a Christian, yet you don’t accept one of the most basic principles of the Judeo-Christian beliefs.

You claim Christianity, yet you doubt like an agnostic, and defend the principles of atheism like an atheist. Meaning, you appear to adhere to the (I, me) atheist doctrine of existence.

In the Judeo-Christian Religious beliefs, there are two forces of power in the universe. The power of right & good, which is of GOD, and, the power of bad, evil, and wrong, which is of the devil. These are the only to forces that have the control over life and death. Anyone that thinks they have control over their life is delusional. You either surrender yourself to JESUS THE CHRIST AND GOD, or the devil rules your life, which leads to death (eternal), and there is NO in between.

GOD is not the author of doubt, the devil is. GOD is not afraid of questions; He knows everything, why should He be. If you ask a question in honest search of truth and enlightenment, He will lead you to someone to answer your questions, or He will answer them according to your needs, which He knows better than you what you need. It may not be the answer you are looking for, but it will be the answer you need to know.

The devil is the one that creates doubt. He makes you question everything that has to do with Christ Jesus and GOD. Not to find the truth, but to find every excuse possible not to believe. He will resist every attempt anyone tries to make to move in the direction of GOD. Probably the best example I can give you is to imagine the devil as the warden of a prison and you are his prisoner. As long as you live a life that he approves of, he doesn’t bother you. Why should he, you aren’t trying to get to GOD. The minute you move in GODs’ direction, he sees you as an escaped prisoner, and the hounds of hell are sent after you. If they catch you and turn your head around, you are put back in prison and he doesn’t bother you any more. If you think you are in control of your own life, you need to get a copy of C. S. Lewis’ “SCREWTAPE LETTERS” and read it cover to cover. It gives you a little insight into how the devil and his peon’s affect everyone’s daily life. Seriously, this is a must for anyone that thinks the devil doesn’t influence you in every thing, from the books you read, to your daily actions, to your thoughts, to keep your thoughts off of HIM, (JESUS AND GOD). Please don’t let the devil convince you that you don’t need anything like this. You may think it’s your thought, but if it is something that can bring you closer to GOD, I guarantee you, it’s not your thought, IT’S his THOUGHT!!!!

[Sparko]

Let me ask you a question Demolition Man.

Why do YOU worship God?

[Vivian]

Hello Demolition Man -

All the instructions in the Bible - including worship - are given in Love, for humanity, for the expressed purpose of bringing all back in unity with God.

Just as Jesus said regarding the Sabbath, man was not made for the Sabbath, the Sabbath was made for man, and as others have pointed out - man was not made for worship, but worship was made for man.

You mentioned that if all these things were created for the benefit of man, then man has imagined or created a God for his own benefit.

In one way this is true - that our image of God, God as we know him, is for the benefit of man. The catcher being what is beneficial for man? To remain lost in self indulgences and self-service, hence in ignorance and suffering, and having a God who encourages the perpetuation of that ignorance, or finding freedom from ignorance and suffering and having a God who in Love gives commandments that if followed will lead to that end?

I offer that the God of the Bible is the latter, and one of these commandments is worship.

Anyone who has worshiped in spirit call tell you what true worship does.

It opens our heart to unity with God. To a real knowing and experience of God.

It opens the gates of heaven allowing Grace and Power to descend upon humanity, as Life re-newing rains.

And so worship is for man, so that man might once again be united with God.






Viv

[Hamster]

God wants us to be honest. And the honest response a person has when facing something like God is incredible adoration and humility.

If that isn't the response it produces in a certain person, that certain person has something fundamentally wrong with their attitude.

[Demolition Man]

Look, I'm just asking honest questions. There is no doubt in my mind that every one of you who is answering me struggles with stuff of the same subject just in your own fashion. You're a liar if you claim that you simply have NO hang-ups at all.

When did I say that I don't accept one of the most basic tenets of Judeo-Christian beliefs? I could say you're right in saying that I'm asking these questions "like an atheist" because I have to take that position to feel like I'm giving the question a true hearing. If I ask it "like a Christian" then I have already answered it in my own mind before I give it a fair hearing, and that's dishonest.

rHarry, if someone told you that they made a machine that could turn garbage into cornflakes, would you perhaps doubt this until you saw some good evidence for it? If so, would that doubt be from the devil? My point is, I do not and will not take the position that the questions in my head come from some vibes from the Satan. They naturally appear in my mind just fine on their own out of simply being who I am. Sure, Satan's the author of confusion, but I do not think it means what you're saying about this situation.

Why do I worship God? Because the concept of a being who created EVERYTHING (if this is true) is an amazing thing to me and (ok, I'm gonna talk a little "spiritual" here) it does fill me with a sense of awe. It may surprise you guys to hear that I lead a worship service at a very fundamentalist Baptist church. Crazy, right?

Look, I've been struggling with questions since I was 14, and I'm 24 now. It's a miracle that I'm even still sane. I kind of feel like my position is being attacked by some of you more then my question. If I am wrong about that, I apologize, but if I am right, then I am not going to be able to take a sensible debate with you. Most Christians are just fine in their minds and assume that because THEY are, that everyone else should be. "I believe it just easily so why don't you?" I've been like this for 10 years and I feel like I've done the absolute best I can do even though I'm not in a solid place like you guys claim to be.

I do agree with the sentiment that if God is just, He must judge on a case-to-case basis.

[rHarryr]

Demolition Man;

PLEASE!!!!! Before we take this discussion any further, get a copy of "Screwtape Letters" and read it. We'll talk some more on this subject after you see what I'm talking about. I'm glad you stated your position more clearly. Now I know where you're comming from. I was raised Baptist, Southern Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Hard Rock Baptist. I've been to all three when I was growing up. I'm sorry to have to say that I always walked away from Sunday School and Sunday Service, feeling like something was missing. I don't know if you've ever felt that way or not, But I don't ever remember any of my questions being answered. PLEASE, read the book before we talk again on this subject.




P. S. And yes, I do still struggle with my Faith. The Bible says to work out your salvation in fear (phobia), and trembling (trauma). How you work it out is between you and the LORD. No one else.