Why does God need to/want to be worshipped?

[Sparko]

Nice slide or duck, bob and weave out the stage door. You view still allows no free will choice to 'live by the truth.' That has already been determined for everyone, and the names recorded in the book.

so? God has perfect foreknowledge. of course he knows who will accept his salvation.

[RBerman]

Nice slide or duck, bob and weave out the stage door. You view still allows no free will choice to 'live by the truth.' That has already been determined for everyone, and the names recorded in the book.

You appear to have an unstated definition of "free will" which you believe is incompatible with predestination. What is your definition? My definition of free will is "the capacity to act within one's nature, without external compulsion against that nature." Thus it's not a violation of free will that I can't breathe water, etc. My nature constrains me but does not violate my free will.

[shunyadragon]

You appear to have an unstated definition of "free will" which you believe is incompatible with predestination. What is your definition? My definition of free will is "the capacity to act within one's nature, without external compulsion against that nature." Thus it's not a violation of free will that I can't breathe water, etc. My nature constrains me but does not violate my free will.

This one will do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

The question of free will is whether, and in what sense, rational agents exercise control over their actions and decisions. Addressing this question requires understanding the relationship between freedom and cause, and determining whether the laws of nature are causally deterministic.

© source where applicable

You have to go back to Sparko's description of the limits of our ability to make choices, when all things we do are predestined by the external compulsion of God, and predetermined.

To act against one's nature has nothing to with free will. Free will has nothing to do with being able to act freely in making decisions within our nature, and nothing to do with things that we are not physically able to do like breath water.

[RBerman]

This one will do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

The question of free will is whether, and in what sense, rational agents exercise control over their actions and decisions. Addressing this question requires understanding the relationship between freedom and cause, and determining whether the laws of nature are causally deterministic.

© source where applicable

You have to go back to Sparko's description of the limits of our ability to make choices, when all things we do are predestined by the external compulsion of God, and predetermined.

To act against one's nature has nothing to with free will. Free will has nothing to do with being able to act freely in making decisions within our nature, and nothing to do with things that we are not physically able to do like breath water.

Why is it necessary for God's foreordination to involve external compulsion?

[Sparko]

i never said anything about eternal compulsion or predetermination. please don't put words in my mouth.

[shunyadragon]

Why is it necessary for God's foreordination to involve external compulsion?

Good question!!!! Well, ah . . . foreordination is enforced in the Bible by external compulsion. Humans have no choice whether they want to or not.

[RBerman]

Why is it necessary for God's foreordination to involve external compulsion?

Good question!!!! Well, ah . . . foreordination is enforced in the Bible by external compulsion. Humans have no choice whether they want to or not.

Are you sure about that? "Compulsion" to me means that I am being forced to do something I don't want to do. But what if God has foreordained me to have a certain nature, with certain desires which inspire me freely to act a certain way in a certain circumstance? I can think of some Scriptural evidence that God molds the hearts of men.

[shunyadragon]

Are you sure about that? "Compulsion" to me means that I am being forced to do something I don't want to do. But what if God has foreordained me to have a certain nature, with certain desires which inspire me freely to act a certain way in a certain circumstance? I can think of some Scriptural evidence that God molds the hearts of men.

Reread Sparko's posts, he offers no free will choice as to who God chooses. Sense God is selective in how the Holy Spirit 'molds the hearts of men,' we cannot be equally free to act a certain way in a certain circumstance.

[shunyadragon]

i never said anything about eternal compulsion or predetermination. please don't put words in my mouth.

Your words from your mouth;

how does that not address the issue? God is sovereign. He determines when and where any person will be born. He also knows who will and won't respond to the gospel. I am sure that anyone who will respond to the gospel will hear it. Nobody will be able to say "well if I only knew.." at the judgment. Because God knows.

[RBerman]

Reread Sparko's posts, he offers no free will choice as to who God chooses. Sense God is selective in how the Holy Spirit 'molds the hearts of men,' we cannot be equally free to act a certain way in a certain circumstance.

I doubt we have the same definition of "free." Libertarian free will is a figment of the imagination. Freedom consists in acting according to one's unchosen desires, not in the possibility that one will choose what one does not want.

[Sparko]

i never said anything about eternal compulsion or predetermination. please don't put words in my mouth.

Your words from your mouth;

how does that not address the issue? God is sovereign. He determines when and where any person will be born. He also knows who will and won't respond to the gospel. I am sure that anyone who will respond to the gospel will hear it. Nobody will be able to say "well if I only knew.." at the judgment. Because God knows.

and exactly where do you see anything about eternal compulsion or predetermination? Knowing the future doesn't take away choice. He knows the choices we will freely make. He doesn't force us to make them.

[shunyadragon]

and exactly where do you see anything about eternal compulsion or predetermination? Knowing the future doesn't take away choice. He knows the choices we will freely make. He doesn't force us to make them.

The absolute will of God in this view predetermined all choices, and thus we have no freedom. The illusion of freedom is not freedom. If a robot is manipulated by the master who knows all the choices the robot will make, the robot does not make free choices.

[Sparko]

The absolute will of God in this view predetermined all choices, and thus we have no freedom. The illusion of freedom is not freedom. If a robot is manipulated by the master who knows all the choices the robot will make, the robot does not make free choices.

if the absolute will of God is for you to make your own choices, then how is that limiting your free will?

if you make your own choices, it makes no difference if anyone knows what they are going to be.

You know all of the choices you made yesterday. Does that mean you didn't have free will yesterday?

Your future self of tomorrow knows all the choices you are going to make today. Does that mean you don't have free will today?

[rHarryr]

You people are really something. You sit around arguing about the god you believe in. With your feeble plebian mentality you say GOD is this way or that way or He does this or that. I wonder if you will ever realize that GOD is not bound by your definitions of HIM. You can’t pidgin-hole HIM. You can’t put HIM in a box and conveniently carry HIM around with you so HE will be there for your convenience when you need HIM. GOD is not here for you; you are here for HIM. HE made all of us for a specific purpose. There was a song put out a while back titled “You got to Serve Somebody”. It may be GOD, it may be the devil but, your gonna serve somebody. If you don’t learn how to serve GOD, you’re serving the devil. Even if you think you are doing only what you want to do. You are serving the devil if you are not serving GOD. Stop trying to define HIM and find a bible and a preacher, pastor, priest or whatever that teaches you how to learn HIS ways and how to serve HIM and stop trying to use your cookie cutter to conform HIM to your worldly acceptability’s. It won’t work and YOU LOSE. Take this higher education you have and put it to use in a manner that will benefit your soul instead of your worldly desires, or a better word is lusts’. You are here for HIS PURPOSE; HE is not here for you. The sooner you accept this frame of reference and start to live as though you owe your very existence to HIM and live like it the sooner you can become a disciple (learner) and the better chance you have of spending eternity with HIM. Read Jesus’ parable of the sower, then read HIS explanation of it, then read all the other verses related to the context of what HE says is the reason HE speaks in parables.

Harry

[Konfucious]

Does Demolition Man still posts here, i would love to talk to him.