The Final Stage of Creation

[Sparko]

This is clearly an over statement of the role of Quantum Physics in the macroscopic world. It is true that absolutely nothing would work in our macroscopic world including computers without the nature of the Quantum World, but Tassman is correct the Laws of Classical Physics hold in the macroscopic world without consideration of Quantum Mechanics.

Computers work fine based on classical physics.

You clearly know nothing about electronics. Without quantum mechanics we would never have even developed the transistor, semiconductors, or solid state electronics, not to mention integrated circuits and computer chips.

[shunyadragon]

You clearly know nothing about electronics. Without quantum mechanics we would never have even developed the transistor, semiconductors, or solid state electronics, not to mention integrated circuits and computer chips.

The transistor, semiconductors, and solid state electronics, and not to mention integrated circuits and computer chips were developed based on classical physics without any consideration of Quantum Mechanics. Actually most of these technologies were developed before our knowledge of Quantum Mechanics was developed in Physics. I believe Tassman and others will confirm this.

Again, It is true that absolutely nothing would work in our macroscopic world including computers without the nature of the Quantum World, classical physics is adequate to explain this, and the technology was mostly developed based on only classical physics aproduct of electrical engineering. The basics were covered in my college physics and math classes over forty years ago.

[Sparko]

The transistor, semiconductors, and solid state electronics, and not to mention integrated circuits and computer chips were developed based on classical physics without any consideration of Quantum Mechanics. Actually most of these technologies were developed before our knowledge of Quantum Mechanics was developed in Physics. I believe Tassman and others will confirm this.

bzzzt. wrong. (I have a degree in electronics)

since you won't take my word for it.

Source: http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/112615/why-is-it-said-that-without-quantum-mechanics-we-would-not-have-modern-computers

In modern computers you need semiconductors, and the whole theory of solid state physics (band structures, doping, etc) is based on a foundation of quantum mechanics - since electrons in semiconducting solids behave in a manner that is more wave-like than particle-like, with each electron occupying its own distinct state.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor

The modern understanding of the properties of a semiconductor relies on quantum physics to explain the movement of charge carriers in a crystal lattice.[2] Doping greatly increases the number of charge carriers within the crystal. When a doped semiconductor contains mostly free holes it is called "p-type", and when it contains mostly free electrons it is known as "n-type". The semiconductor materials used in electronic devices are doped under precise conditions to control the concentration and regions of p- and n-type dopants. A single semiconductor crystal can have many p- and n-type regions; the p–n junctions between these regions are responsible for the useful electronic behavior.

Although some pure elements and many compounds display semiconductor properties, silicon, germanium, and compounds of gallium are the most widely used in electronic devices. Elements near the so-called "metalloid staircase", where the metalloids are located on the periodic table, are usually used as semiconductors.

Some of the properties of semiconductor materials were observed throughout the mid 19th and first decades of the 20th century. The first practical application of semiconductors in electronics was the 1904 development of the Cat's-whisker detector, a primitive semiconductor diode widely used in early radio receivers. Developments in quantum physics in turn allowed the development of the transistor in 1947[3] and the integrated circuit in 1958.

© Copyright Original Source

I can find more references if you wish.

[Kbertsche]

This is clearly an over statement of the role of Quantum Physics in the macroscopic world. It is true that absolutely nothing would work in our macroscopic world including computers without the nature of the Quantum World, but Tassman is correct the Laws of Classical Physics hold in the macroscopic world without consideration of Quantum Mechanics.

Computers work fine based on classical physics.

No, computers do NOT work fine based on classical physics! Their circuitry relies on numerous quantum mechanical effects (quantum mechanical tunneling, band gaps, etc.)

But I also agree that the laws of classical physics hold in the macroscopic world.

[shunyadragon]

bzzzt. wrong. (I have a degree in electronics)

since you won't take my word for it.

Source: http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/112615/why-is-it-said-that-without-quantum-mechanics-we-would-not-have-modern-computers

In modern computers you need semiconductors, and the whole theory of solid state physics (band structures, doping, etc) is based on a foundation of quantum mechanics - since electrons in semiconducting solids behave in a manner that is more wave-like than particle-like, with each electron occupying its own distinct state.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor

The modern understanding of the properties of a semiconductor relies on quantum physics to explain the movement of charge carriers in a crystal lattice.[2] Doping greatly increases the number of charge carriers within the crystal. When a doped semiconductor contains mostly free holes it is called "p-type", and when it contains mostly free electrons it is known as "n-type". The semiconductor materials used in electronic devices are doped under precise conditions to control the concentration and regions of p- and n-type dopants. A single semiconductor crystal can have many p- and n-type regions; the p–n junctions between these regions are responsible for the useful electronic behavior.

Although some pure elements and many compounds display semiconductor properties, silicon, germanium, and compounds of gallium are the most widely used in electronic devices. Elements near the so-called "metalloid staircase", where the metalloids are located on the periodic table, are usually used as semiconductors.

Some of the properties of semiconductor materials were observed throughout the mid 19th and first decades of the 20th century. The first practical application of semiconductors in electronics was the 1904 development of the Cat's-whisker detector, a primitive semiconductor diode widely used in early radio receivers. Developments in quantum physics in turn allowed the development of the transistor in 1947[3] and the integrated circuit in 1958.

© Copyright Original Source

I can find more references if you wish.

bzzzt . . . not entirely wrong. Everything in our existence would not exist without Quantum Mechanics.

First, transistor, and solid state electronics, and not to mention integrated circuits and computer chips were developed experimentally and yes explained by Quantum Mechanics as is the nature of all the advances in science.

Semi conductors were developed experimentally long before Quantum Mechanics was even known nor had a name, and yes explained later by principles of Quantum Mechanics, beginning in 1931.

Source: http://www.computerhistory.org/siliconengine/timeline/

1833: First Semiconductor Effect is Recorded
Michael Faraday describes the "extraordinary case" of his discovery of electrical conduction increasing with temperature in silver sulfide crystals. This is the opposite to that observed in copper and other metals.

Ferdinand Braun shared the 1909 Nobel Prize in Physics with Guglielmo Marconi
1874: Semiconductor Point-Contact Rectifier Effect is Discovered
In the first written description of a semiconductor diode, Ferdinand Braun notes that current flows freely in only one direction at the contact between a metal point and a galena crystal.

Jagdish Chandra Bose in his laboratory
1901: Semiconductor Rectifiers Patented as "Cat's Whisker" Detectors
Radio pioneer Jagadis Chandra Bose patents the use of a semiconductor crystal rectifier for detecting radio waves.

1926: Field Effect Semiconductor Device Concepts Patented
Julius Lilienfeld files a patent describing a three-electrode amplifying device based on the semiconducting properties of copper sulfide. Attempts to build such a device continue through the 1930s.

A. H. Wilson (later honored as Sir Alan Wilson) in his Cambridge days
1931: "The Theory Of Electronic Semi-Conductors" is Published
Alan Wilson uses quantum mechanics to explain basic semiconductor properties. Seven years later Boris Davydov (USSR), Nevill Mott (UK), and Walter Schottky (Germany) independently explain rectification.

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

bzzzt . . . not entirely wrong. Everything in our existence would not exist without Quantum Mechanics.

First, transistor, and solid state electronics, and not to mention integrated circuits and computer chips were developed experimentally and yes explained by Quantum Mechanics as is the nature of all the advances in science.

Semi conductors were developed experimentally long before Quantum Mechanics was even known nor had a name, and yes explained later by principles of Quantum Mechanics, beginning in 1931.

Source: http://www.computerhistory.org/siliconengine/timeline/

1833: First Semiconductor Effect is Recorded
Michael Faraday describes the "extraordinary case" of his discovery of electrical conduction increasing with temperature in silver sulfide crystals. This is the opposite to that observed in copper and other metals.

Ferdinand Braun shared the 1909 Nobel Prize in Physics with Guglielmo Marconi
1874: Semiconductor Point-Contact Rectifier Effect is Discovered
In the first written description of a semiconductor diode, Ferdinand Braun notes that current flows freely in only one direction at the contact between a metal point and a galena crystal.

Jagdish Chandra Bose in his laboratory
1901: Semiconductor Rectifiers Patented as "Cat's Whisker" Detectors
Radio pioneer Jagadis Chandra Bose patents the use of a semiconductor crystal rectifier for detecting radio waves.

1926: Field Effect Semiconductor Device Concepts Patented
Julius Lilienfeld files a patent describing a three-electrode amplifying device based on the semiconducting properties of copper sulfide. Attempts to build such a device continue through the 1930s.

A. H. Wilson (later honored as Sir Alan Wilson) in his Cambridge days
1931: "The Theory Of Electronic Semi-Conductors" is Published
Alan Wilson uses quantum mechanics to explain basic semiconductor properties. Seven years later Boris Davydov (USSR), Nevill Mott (UK), and Walter Schottky (Germany) independently explain rectification.

© Copyright Original Source

sheesh you just can't say "oh I was wrong" can you?

Without quantum physics scientists would never have even invented the transistor, much less the integrated circuit. And the claim was that without quantum effects affecting the macro world you would not have a computer. That is true.

You are wrong. completely wrong. wrongity wrong wrong wrong. absolutely in error. You could not BE any wronger. Just say "oops I was wrong" and move along.

[Tassman]

False. If "the microscopic world of quantum physics has no discernible effect in the macroscopic world" then the computer that you are typing on doesn't work. It can't work without quantum physics.

Quantum physics functions according to probability, i.e. we can only know how things will probably behave on the average...but we know that very precisely.

[seer]

Quantum physics functions according to probability, i.e. we can only know how things will probably behave on the average...but we know that very precisely.

That was actually rather good turn of the phrase. For Tassbro that is...

[shunyadragon]

Quantum physics functions according to probability, i.e. we can only know how things will probably behave on the average...but we know that very precisely.

Falsifiable consistency is the principle consideration, and Quantum Mechanics is predicable and consistent.

[shunyadragon]

Quantum physics functions according to probability, i.e. we can only know how things will probably behave on the average...but we know that very precisely.

I question this. Science uses concepts of probability as a part of the math 'tool box' to understand aspects of Quantum Mechanics, and not Quantum Mechanics functions according to probability.

[37818]

They’re overt contradictions. If Jesus is FULLY man, he cannot be at the same time FULLY god. End of story!

An uncaused CAUSE is both infinite being uncaused and FINITE being a CAUSE. The one who was both "with God"; and "was God" in John 1:1-2 is identified as the cause of all caused things v.3. And is identified v.4, 9-10 to be the one who changed to become fully human in v.14. (2 John 9).

So? There’s no credible evidence to support such a claim.

Only for those who reject the written record upon which it is based.

The facts that inform the premises of a metaphysical argument can only attained via empirical science.

There is deductive reasoning also.

Otherwise they can only be assumed, i.e. guessed at...as Aristotle found out to his cost.

Give the citation.

Things have moved along since Aquinas. There is no reason to believe the quantum vacuum required a cause, except our intuition taken from the macroscopic world. And if there's anything we've learnt from quantum physics...it's that our intuition is utterly inadequate in understanding the microscopic world. This is merely an argument from ignorance; and therefore cannot form a premise for a sound argument.

What of experimental evidence that supports the quantium theory?

Infinity cannot be reduced to a set of causes, it’s either infinite or it’s not.

Infinity of causes would mean there can be no first cause. And can imply that there will be no last. All causes being finite.

[Tassman]

An uncaused CAUSE is both infinite being uncaused and FINITE being a CAUSE. The one who was both "with God"; and "was God" in John 1:1-2 is identified as the cause of all caused things v.3. And is identified v.4, 9-10 to be the one who changed to become fully human in v.14. (2 John 9).

Scripture!!!

You’re using a 2,000 y.o. worldview in an attempt to justify “an uncaused CAUSE” and the nonsensical Hypostatic Union?. Come now!

Only for those who reject the written record upon which it is based.

There’s no good evidence to support the bible as the word of god...or the Koran or the Egyptian Book of the Dead or any other “word of god” for that matter.

There is deductive reasoning also.

Unless a deductive argument is based upon a known true premise it cannot be seen as a sound argument...no matter how valid it might be. Only science can establish an empirically true premise.

Give the citation.

Nearly every argument and conclusion Aristotle made about the physical universe was wrong, e.g. his geocentric concept of the universe.

http://www.crystalinks.com/celestialspheres.html

And medieval scholastics, basing their thinking on the Aristotelian model believed erroneously, that absolutely true premises could be obtained via pure reason and in revelations from God, as recorded in the Bible. They can’t.

What of experimental evidence that supports the quantium theory?

Quantum theory is counter-intuitive and there is no reason to believe that the quantum vacuum required a cause, except our intuition taken from the macroscopic world.

Infinity of causes would mean there can be no first cause. And can imply that there will be no last. All causes being finite.

Correct! That's what "infinity" means. Merriam-Webster: "a space, amount, or period of time that has no limits or end".

[shunyadragon]

An uncaused CAUSE is both infinite being uncaused and FINITE being a CAUSE. The one who was both "with God"; and "was God" in John 1:1-2 is identified as the cause of all caused things v.3. And is identified v.4, 9-10 to be the one who changed to become fully human in v.14. (2 John 9).

The assertion that God is an uncaused cause based on your own scripture is begging the question based ancient world views that cannot be objectively verified. It is very possible that Natural Law may be the the infinite CAUSE of everything, and our physical existence may be infinite and eternal.

What of experimental evidence that supports the quantium theory?

there is abundant overwhelming experimental evidence supporting Quantum Theory, especially for the practical applications in our modern technology.

Infinity cannot be reduced to a set of causes, it’s either infinite or it’s not.

Tassman, there are basically two types of infinity, potential infinities, which of course cannot be expressed in terms of sets, and actual infinities that are expressed as infinite closed sets. What 37818 proposes is a set of causes, which would be a closed set of infinite elements of causes, and by its nature would exist with a greater 'space' or math concept of a potential infinity.

Infinity of causes would mean there can be no first cause. And can imply that there will be no last. All causes being finite.

Yes bolded is true, but nonetheless an Infinity of causes would be a closed set of actual infinities, and not the potential infinity, nor a finite space the set of infinite causes would be a part of.

If you make the assertion the ALL causes are finite, therefore your God would be finite, and maybe an actual infinity of gods, within a greater reality. Special pleading that your argument does not apply to your God does not make your argument convincing.