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Thread: How did you as a Christian come to the understanding . . .

  1. #41
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    The whole purpose of this thread is to present the Bibical basis for the concept of the eternal generation of the Son of God by the Father. The very fact of God being the Father carries the connotation of the Son being the one begotten from God (John 5:18). Now I have always held to the concept of the eternal Sonship. And it would have be understood that "begotten" in that sense is not to be understood in a temporal way.
    That's correct. And the doctrine of the eternal generation is not to be understood in a temporal way. What the doctrine of eternal ( <---- it's right there in the name) generation teaches is that the source of the Son's existence and diety is the Father. The Son exists eternally because the Father exists eternally. Everything the Son has and is he has and is in virtue of being eternally begotten of the Father before all time.

  2. Amen Bill the Cat amen'd this post.
  3. #42
    tWebber
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    Jesus is the Word (John 1), so he is eternally generated in that way being from eternity in the bosom of the Father. Once we say things and the sound goes out our words often get distorted as we lose control over them. Jesus is the living active word of God so He keeps sure what God has said. Where we distort and degrade what God has spoken (the creation and words of wisdom), He is faithful, mends and restores. Psalm 19 is about the works and words of God and imo v.4 is about the incarnation.

  4. #43
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abigail View Post
    Jesus is the Word (John 1), so he is eternally generated in that way being from eternity in the bosom of the Father. Once we say things and the sound goes out our words often get distorted as we lose control over them. Jesus is the living active word of God so He keeps sure what God has said. Where we distort and degrade what God has spoken (the creation and words of wisdom), He is faithful, mends and restores. Psalm 19 is about the works and words of God and imo v.4 is about the incarnation.
    A side question: How do you get Christ's (John 1;14) incarnation from natural revelation (". . . So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word[ρήματος] of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." -- Romans 10:17-18. ". . . Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, . . ." -- Psalm 19:4)? Please explain, thanks.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  5. #44
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    A side question: How do you get Christ's (John 1;14) incarnation from natural revelation (". . . So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word[ρήματος] of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." -- Romans 10:17-18. ". . . Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, . . ." -- Psalm 19:4)? Please explain, thanks.
    Here is my take on it
    I think God reveals what they should expect.
    Boris Maslov in Pindar and the Emergence of Literature writes: "Nature's ability to perceive divine presence in Alcaeus, as recounted by Himerius, is an example of what might be called the sponte sua imagery usually associated in Classical sources with the mythical Golden Age. The presence of the god creates an aura which transforms and often animates the surrounding space [...] I propose to distinguish epidemia from epiphany, at least on two counts. First epiphany designates visual, often momentary, appearance of a deity to an individual or a group, who in Archaic sources tend to react with apprehension; by contrast epidemia refers to a gods lengthy stay, often tacit but always socially significant and beneficient. It does not bring with it the trauma of being confronted with the larger-than-life presence of a divinity or the suspicion that the god may be active in disguise"

    So there we can see that the appearance of Christ to Paul happened in a way which resonated with Gentile understandings of deity and the appearings of deity. I think Christ's earthly sojourn would also resonate with their understanding of a deity being active. Paul in his speech before Agrippa (Acts 26) says the Jews should not be surprised that someone rose from the dead as their own prophets fortold this.

  6. #45
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abigail View Post
    Here is my take on it
    I think God reveals what they should expect.
    Boris Maslov in Pindar and the Emergence of Literature writes: "Nature's ability to perceive divine presence in Alcaeus, as recounted by Himerius, is an example of what might be called the sponte sua imagery usually associated in Classical sources with the mythical Golden Age. The presence of the god creates an aura which transforms and often animates the surrounding space [...] I propose to distinguish epidemia from epiphany, at least on two counts. First epiphany designates visual, often momentary, appearance of a deity to an individual or a group, who in Archaic sources tend to react with apprehension; by contrast epidemia refers to a gods lengthy stay, often tacit but always socially significant and beneficient. It does not bring with it the trauma of being confronted with the larger-than-life presence of a divinity or the suspicion that the god may be active in disguise"

    Whoops missed out a pertinent word when typing in this quote, here it is again with missed word added and emboldened

    Boris Maslov in Pindar and the Emergence of Literature writes: "Nature's ability to perceive divine presence in Alcaeus, as recounted by Himerius, is an example of what might be called the sponte sua imagery usually associated in Classical sources with the mythical Golden Age. The presence of the god creates an aura which transforms and often animates the surrounding space [...] I propose to distinguish epidemia from epiphany, at least on two counts. First epiphany designates visual, often momentary, appearance of a deity to an individual or a group, who in Archaic sources tend to react with apprehension; by contrast epidemia refers to a gods lengthy stay, often tacit but always socially significant and beneficient. It does not bring with it the trauma of being confronted with the larger-than-life physical presence of a divinity or the suspicion that the god may be active in disguise"

    Here is a link to google book extract
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...maslov&f=false

  7. #46
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    For those of you who are allowed to post in the [two] "Christian Only" forums, please explain how you came to the understanding that the one and only Son of God was eternally begotten of the Father from eternity. [Moderators, and please everyone, this is not to be a debate thread, but questions are to be allowed, Thanks.]
    ## I learned it at prep school, and it sunk in over a period of years, until, much later, it made sense. There was no single revelatory moment or anything - more of a process of accretion. We said the Creed regularly, every Sunday, which helped.

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