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Thread: How did you as a Christian come to the understanding . . .

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catholicity View Post
    It was a process of understanding for me. and in depth study of the Scripture.
    OK. Is it too difficult to make plain from Scripture?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Could you please give an exegetical explanation how you get from that text the understanding the one and only Son is begotten of the Father from eternity? Thanks.

    Yup. Same old same old.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Yup. Same old same old.
    Is asking a question to support a view wrong? On the supposition I do not benefit from it - don't you suppose others can benefit by having a Biblical understanding for the view that the one and only Son of God is begotten of the Father from eternity? Again, this is not to debate it, but to present the claim and support it.

    Don't you think if I could I would do it myself? And if I could I wouldn't have bothered with this. Rather I would defend it.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Could you please give an exegetical explanation how you get from that text the understanding the one and only Son is begotten of the Father from eternity? Thanks.
    Sure. I'll break down the passage:

    - The Lord
    YHWH. Elohim. Adonai. El Shaddai. El Elyon... you get the picture.

    - possessed me
    Meaning ownership. Wisdom (which is Christ - See 1 Corinthians 1:24) is stating it was possessed by the Lord


    - in the beginning of his way,
    In the beginning, Wisdom was possessed by God (Or as John 1:1 says, was WITH God.)


    - before his works of old.
    Wisdom existed and was possessed by God even before God began to work in Gen 1:1


    - I was set up
    Wisdom states it was "set up" (Hebrew nacak is typically used of anointing something, casting metal in a mold, or installing something in place to accomplish a task). In this form, it means wisdom was "brought forth"


    - from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
    These 3 terms form a series of modifiers that emphasize the eternal nature of Wisdom that was brought forth from God.


    - When there were no depths, I was brought forth;
    The term "brought forth" (Hebrew chuwl) is the same as uses of childbirth and presenting something that was carried. So, Wisdom says it was "generated" from the Lord before anything existed.


    - when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth…” (Proverbs 8:22-26)
    Same term here, and another strong modifier to emphasize the eternal nature of Wisdom.


    So, from these verses, we can see that Wisdom, or the Word, or Christ Jesus, is begotten and possessed by the Lord God from eternity.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Thank you Bill.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Thank you Bill.
    Gy0e_f-maxage-0.gif


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    OK. How by that did you come to the understanding .that the one and only Son of God was eternally begotten of the Father from eternity?
    It was not “by that” (wimping-out/surrendering/giving up) that “I” came to an understanding, but by being willing to humbly accept pure charity, God through Christians presented the Good News. My part was just in wanting something better, even if it meant accepting charity.

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    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    For those of you who are allowed to post in the [two] "Christian Only" forums, please explain how you came to the understanding that the one and only Son of God was eternally begotten of the Father from eternity. [Moderators, and please everyone, this is not to be a debate thread, but questions are to be allowed, Thanks.]
    We know of the deity, preexistence, and eternality of the Word particularly from John 1 (amongst other NT texts). As for the eternal sonship doctrine, the scriptural foundations for this teaching are not so certain. It may be that the NT language of sonship applies exclusively to the Word made flesh: Jesus Christ in his incarnate state. Was the divine Logos always a Son or did he assume the role of sonship at some point in human history (i.e. approximately two thousand years ago)?
    Last edited by The Remonstrant; 07-09-2016 at 11:57 AM.
    ‘To say that God deliberately brings about a sinful human race so that he may [unconditionally] elect some to salvation, and then deliberately sends the nonelect to hell so that his saving gace may appear all the more glorious, is the opposite of grace.’
    —Jack W. Cottrell, ‘Responses to Robert L. Reymond’, in Chad Owen Brand (ed.), Perspectives on Election: Five Views (Nashville, TN: B&H Academic, 2006), p. 202, emphasis in original



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    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Hebrews 1:3 is one passage that can be read as supporting the doctrine of eternal generation:

    Source: Hebrews 1:3 ESV

    3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.

    © Copyright Original Source



    What's interesting is that Hebrews 1:3 seems to refer back to Wisdom 7:25-26, lending further support that the writers of the New Testament viewed Jesus as the personified Wisdom of God:

    Source: Wisdom 7:25-26, NKJV


    25So she is the exhalation of the power of God And the emanation of the pure glory of the Almighty; Therefore nothing defiled enters her. 26For she is the radiance of eternal light, A spotless mirror of the operative power of God And the image of His goodness.

    Nelson, Thomas. NKJV, The Orthodox Study Bible, eBook: Ancient Christianity Speaks to Today's World (Kindle Locations 52320-52326). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

    © Copyright Original Source


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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Remonstrant View Post
    We know of the deity, preexistence, and eternality of the Word particularly from John 1 (amongst other NT texts). As for the eternal sonship doctrine, the scriptural foundations for this teaching are not so certain. It may be that the NT language of sonship applies exclusively to the Word made flesh: Jesus Christ in his incarnate state. Was the divine Logos always a Son or did he assume the role of sonship at some point in human history (i.e. approximately two thousand years ago)?
    How do you understand Proverbs 30:4, '"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?"?'
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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